Salon Rising: The Podcast

Transcript

Until you become a business owner that has staff. Mm-hmm. Um,  you never quite understand  what it's like when a staff member believes and a clientele goes with them, and who is gonna be the next person that has to come in and fill that person's shoes when they  are a huge part of the family. It's a superpower because I really generally care so much, but it's really painful.

Yeah. And it takes a long time, especially when you're a business owner that is so passionate about your business and being in it. You started sliding into someone's dms before we'd officially broken up. Yeah. I thought things were going okay. Yeah. And you were secretly swiping right on Tinder. Yeah. Well, they have to.

I don't know which way you swipe guys. I really don't. Yeah. Mane Union is healthy connection within a safe space for Salon on owners.  I really, really, really want people to come into wherever the space, and I'm not talking, I love these big events that are happening, but. There are so many people, including myself, that I think a lot of hairdressers wear and owners wear 

extroverted introverts. But you walk in here, you're getting the sparkliest mm-hmm.  Version, the kindest, sparkliest outgoing person you'll meet. You talk to me in the place that is not here and I look like a Bambi. I'm like, it's the bond, the connection, the rapport that you have with these people. They're family.

So you build staff that are friends. So you watch friends leave  and.  In the back of your mind, there is a failure point in that I failed that person. I failed that client. I fi failed. And that noise can get really loud.

 A lovers, just a quick one. If you listen to us and you love us, could you please hit that subscribe button? I know it's a pain, but that little button means the world to us and our podcast and means that we can get more great guests on like we know you guys love listening to. So do a girl a favor, hit subscribe, and we would be so grateful.

 Welcome back to the Inner Sanctum Salon Rising the podcast. Do you know what? I've just realized what the podcast, you say it with a certain voice every time. Forgot. To say the inner sanctum in our last podcast. Oh, I just said welcome back to Salon Rising, the podcast. Oh, well that's okay. Everyone will not listen now.

'cause how rude. Oh yeah. I was like, no.  Anyway, bitch. What a terrible podcast.  Also, um, if you guys like us, please make sure that you, um, subscribe, like, share, subscribe. I don't know, whatever that is because we don't often mention that. But also we could handle a little bit of love in our inbox or our Google.

Feel free to head over there and give us some love. 'cause sometimes we need to make sure we're doing the right job. You just showed.  Really clearly that you don't listen back to our podcast because at the beginning of every podcast, oh, we say, Hey guys, if you like, what we do can listen. Oh, I don't listen to any of our podcasts.

But what Samara is saying is for words of information, I listen. None of our podcast, babe, she, I'm in it.  I don't, I can't, you know, you don't, you don't cannot handle listening to my own voice back. I'm very sorry you guys have to listen to it in the first place. So, but please do. And clearly there's a little bit of words of affirmation, feedback required here.

So if someone could slide into dms, oh, if we had a big meeting this morning. Regarding the podcast? Yes, and like guests and stuff. So like the types of stories, the types of guests. If there's someone you want on here, please get in touch because sometimes it's like we are hoping that we are giving you guys what you want, but if there's someone you wanna see on here, or stories you want to hear, or advice you want, like that specific struggles that you'd like to hear stuff about.

Mm-hmm. That would be great because then we can build the podcast around what you guys want rather than just winging it and hoping you like what we're doing.  You like it because you're listening. But if you have advice for us  in a really great way, that doesn't make me feel terrible.  Please get in touch.

If it's any, if it's any form of criticism, just send it to my dms.  Um,  otherwise I'll burn this podcast to the ground. Now, speaking of special guests and having people on, we are joined by Aimee from Maine Union, and I'm gonna say like,  you got, I got it right. See? Yay. In my head, I'm like, say it like guava  Ava.

So.Aimeemy, um, we sort of crossed paths at an education event we were at where you were speaking about Mane Union and I was like, that is a really, really cool concept. Centers around community, which I think we're gonna talk about more anyway, so I'm not gonna go into too much of that, but let's have a little chat because I love, obviously our connection came from, um, someone in Sair that we, um, know who's really great as well.

And I just love the way that shout out to you, Lisa. I was like, who  are you talking about? Yes, Lisa. Really lovely advocates for the people that she's passionate about. She really does outside of her circle, you know, like she, and, and I think it's. Something that's really special about how she goes out there.

You know, it's not about her making any gains, she just wants everybody to know about the cool things that the people she's involved with are doing. And that's what it was like with you and talking about that initial part of your journey and just starting your cell on and moving to a new town, starting a salon on being like, cool, I know no one and I have no clients.

Literally, let's do this. Literally shitting my pants. So let's, let's start with a little bit of that backstory. Let's go. Okay, so you moved to Brisbane. Where did you move from? So we moved from New South Wales. Yes. So, um, Southwest Sydney, um, from a little town called Camden, which, you know, it's not so tiny now, but still to put it into, um, relation to Brisbane, for example.

It was. 80 kilometers out of Sydney.  Oh. So, you know. Okay. Quite regional in comparison. Yeah. So lots of people know each other. You have your real hub, you have your community, you have your connection. It's really, really homely. Um, we, I was born in Brisbane, but then moved down there. So pretty much had all my teenage and adult life.

So started establishing my career, um, down there again in such a beautiful place where everyone knows everyone,  you know, could be a bit. And then so what made the move, what made you guys move up here? So lifestyle, like everyone. Right.  So we came up here, um, not with the intention originally to open a salon, but with the intention.

Um, I worked for another beautiful salon in New South Wales that I helped manage. We had been planning the move for quite a while, so I guess before 'cause so this is in 2020. Um, and before Covid really like kicked off, I guess it was all happening, but no one knew to what extent, right? So we said, yeah, we're just gonna move for this reason of lifestyle.

Um, my family is up here. I have um, one sibling left in New South Wales who we visit quite often still, but I had spoken to the girls that I was managing the salon for in New South Wales and I said they wanted to expand. They had had some, you know, logistical nightmares of opening a new salon. And I said, what about Brisbane?

It Covid didn't seem to be affecting it too much. Um, it's a growing city. Everyone still calls it, you know, the big country town. But really, is it anymore the same as the Gold Coast, right? Oh, it's so not anymore boomed. Yeah. Brisbane is a big city now. Yeah. So I started looking into.  What the clientele would look like.

What were the demographics, what sort of areas that we wanted to move into, because for the last 10 years I'd been managing salons. So I, that was really my niche. I really loved doing that. I had no intention of opening a salon, moved up, literally my then, um, partner now husband said to me,  he called me and he, um, you know, worked in the city and he's like, you need to pack all the shit into the garage and we need to leave.

And I was like, oh, he's so dramatic.  He's fine. So this is now in August of 2020. Thank god that I listened to him because literally the day before the borders were closing, we were crossing over. Really?  And I was like, woo, that was a wild ride. Like, okay, we made it over. Like, it was just absolutely nuts. So from the get go of moving to Queensland, it was an absolute wild card moved in, um.

To my mom's home in Brisbane. So Bayside, Brisbane, loved that. Then we had quite a while of, I guess trying to have the problem of trades setting up the salon. We found a location in Tenerif, which is still where I am now. So at this point, are you still setting up a salon for Yeah. The people that you were working for?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And because there was job keeper and there was a lot of these, um, I guess government  incentives mm-hmm. Would you say, um, then that was what was able to keep us going and I was still being able to be employed by them. We really handi, my husband's an electrician and I like, you know, we really DIY.

Um, so I said, we've got this, you know, I knew quite a few people in Brisbane. Um, there were trades to help, you know, like renderers and things. So we got in there, we had four months, I'm gonna say. So in November, we pretty much opened the salon in Tene for the girls in Sydney. Um, and that was phenomenal.

However, it was just myself.  And the borders had, borders had closed and they'd only been able to come up once. Mm-hmm. And as you both can appreciate, and I could totally appreciate  finances, funding two salons. Mm-hmm. Sydney had really locked down. Yeah. And they were in such a, you know, state of uncertainty  not being able to physically see what they're funding as well.

Mm. It, it's, there's a lot of problems here. Communication. Um, it's okay, but it can, you really need to be there to see, you know, to feel that motivation. Um, so I was there  for another 12 months and we were just trying to grow and grow and grow. In that time the girls in New South Wales had actually moved two shops down and totally made, you know, upside upscaled.

So.  Salon looked absolutely incredible because that was always in the works. They were in a smaller shopping center. Um, but again, it's expensive, right? Mm-hmm. Plus you have a Brisbane salon mm-hmm. That you haven't been able to travel to just see that you don't have that connection with Yeah, yeah. Again, like exactly what we are talking, you know, what we will go on to talk about is that connection and to what you were saying in the introduction of this connection, don't be scared to reach out to people, you know, let us know what you wanna hear.

So, you know, there, there's all of those sort of things with being an interstate businesses.  On paper it was phenomenal. Like you could look at this and go, tick, tick, tick. Brisbane ticked all the boxes, but when you physically can't come here to see and feel what you're invested into. Mm. It makes it really difficult.

I am a team girl. I do not do well working solo. I definitely like, I kudos to the freelancers out there. Kudos to the. Moms that are working from their homes because you know, it suits their lifestyles and it works. And that's what they've had to do to make it work. Because I think it's incredibly difficult to not have human connection.

Mm. It's really hard. Mm. And it's lonely. Like it's lonely at the best of times. Right. What made you  like, I'm looking at this from, and like me being an owner and I'm like, I love the fact that you were like so behind. Yeah. The people that you work for that you were like, I'm gonna move to a city, I'm gonna build their cell help.

Mm-hmm. Pretty much build their salon,  build it, work in it, and still just run it for them. Yeah. Even though you could have done all of that. Yeah. Yourself, like I think that's so honorable. Yeah. I'm like, how do I find people like you? Like Yeah.  That's phenomenal. Like that you were like, I'm gonna do all of these things, but I'm still gonna do it for you guys.

I think that's a really special, a really special quality. Yeah. I think that I just love. Hairdressing is not a job for me. Yeah. It's almost a hobby. Yeah. So to be able to then come in and help the business side of things, that was my ability to be able to help them. Um, and I love them. Yeah. They're amazing.

I worked with them for like five years and I, before that I had managed to salon on for the best part of 10 years. Yeah. And that salon had taught me so much. They were in, I guess, kind of close to Western Sydney. Yeah. So very diverse, multicultural area. Um, and so I guess I had learned all of the above from that first salon.

And then I just moved closer to home. Yeah. And it's the bond, the connection, the rapport that you have with these people. Yeah. They're family. Yeah. And so I guess, yeah, that's why. Yeah. I was like, you know what? I can see how this is Brisbane. Yeah. It's gonna tickle the boxes. It can work. Yeah. It was just unfortunate the fact that.

Covid.  Yeah. Okay. Key word.  So what happened? So I felt really, really stagnant. Mm-hmm. And I was just getting in my own head and I'd been trying to explain this to them. There's only so much you can communicate with that. Again, being in different states and they had so much fucking shit going on in New South Wales.

Yeah. They'd just opened this a hundred, they'd gone from 40 square meters to the best part of a hundred square meters. Mm-hmm. In the same shopping center, which again is a small shopping center in amongst, there was a lot of changes within that whole suburb as well. Mm. Um, it was crazy. Mm. Like they had a lot going on and I said to them, did you feel a little bit like you're getting left behind?

Like just that  sort of on the, out on the shelf up there. Like, that's it. It was just like, oh, Aimee's amazing. She'll be fine. Not, you know, blowing my own trumpet. No, you can say that, but it's like they had the trust there. Mm-hmm. That it was fine. And again, because I was communicating with them and I was like, probably like a nagging child.

Don't forget about me. I miss you words of affirmation.  Please write me a review. Tell me I'm great.  Don't leave me behind. Yeah. Um, yeah. So I think because there was that, and, and they knew my personality. They knew that I was, I would be okay. But I guess the part that a lot of people don't know about me is that I'm okay until I'm not.

Mm-hmm. Which I think is like a lot of us. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. Um, and it's important, again, going back to what you were saying earlier, you need to speak, we need to communicate, we need the connection, we need the rapport. Mm. When you're sat in the salon by yourself, just like listening to my own voice and talking the ears off of the clients that, you know, again, you know what it's like having a one-on-one constantly, it's really hard.

Mm. Yeah. Um, and at this point too, for a huge chunk of that, I was living with my family because we still had tenants in our property. Mm-hmm. Which was absolutely incredible. But again, it's difficult because even though I managed the salon, I didn't. Own it. Mm-hmm. But you still, when you're managing that heavily, you are invested financially too.

Mm-hmm. So I started putting up, um, Facebook ads and Instagram ads out of my own pocket because I wanted to get busy. I was like, I can't do this. So that's when it came to the point of I've reached out and said, I love you guys, but I actually can't do this. Mm-hmm. Mentally, physically,  like I'm done. Mm-hmm.

I'm tapped out. Mm-hmm. I think that, because again, I knew how much it cost to actually build the salon.  I knew how many clients had come through. I had done all the research into this. And I'm not saying this like I, me, me, me. I've done this, I've done that, but I had brought a lot to the table. Mm-hmm. Um, in regards to knowing the behind the scenes that sometimes the staff, another staff member or a team member wouldn't have a clue because I guess it's not really that interesting in a team member's mind thing.

I think there's a lot of managers that wouldn't have a clue on some of those things. You know, like I think there's a lot of managers that aren't. As invested as what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, for me, I knew that there's no way that I was, one would be willing to offer them the amount of money that they would've needed to be able to recoup that 12, you know, 18 months essentially.

Yeah. Of costs. Mm. You still have to pay rent. You still had to pay my wage. You still, we had an apprentice. Yeah. Mm. Um, there's all that behind the scenes things that go into it. It's not just like opening a salon. I was willing to say, okay, here's the money to open the, for what it costs to build a salon on,  but everything else No.

Like that, you have to take that at, at as a loss. Mm-hmm.  So  I understood, and in my head, I already was prepared for them to say no. Mm-hmm. Because if I own that salon, I would've said no. Mm. So rather than just leaving it there and walking away, I said, how about you sell your fit out and sell the lease, pass this on to someone else.

If you advertise that. It's not like that that new person is coming in and taking your name. Your name is in your business name. Mm-hmm. You can leave that. And I said, I will be okay. I will walk away. Are you fine with if I choose to open a salon, which I honestly still had no intention of doing. Mm. It was the most ridiculously quick decision.

Um, or I could go manage another salon. There's so many salons in Brisbane that are reaching out for people or needing people. They might not have even known that they need me.  Um, so yeah, I said, I will be fine. Don't think about this. From my perspective, all I know is for my own sanity, I need to leave this.

Yep. So, so at that point you were thinking I would sell it for what it costs them to build, but they obviously wanted to sell it higher so it recouped how much it's lost them. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. And again, they had the cost from building the New South Wales salon and Yep. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

Plus, plus, plus. So I was prepared mentally. So what you were prepared to  pay they needed was not more, they needed more. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. And I knew that already because I'd already crunched the numbers. Um,  but I didn't really know what I was gonna do next. Um, did they sell? Yeah. So they ended up selling to a beautiful man called Alfie.

Yeah. Um, and he took it over and that refurb was like my baby. Oh my God. And oh, the girls in New South Wales were absolutely phenomenal. They literally said, I don't mind what you do. I just want, we want track lighting. And again, my partner being an, or my husband being an electrician, he was just like, great.

Um,  yeah. And then, you know, floor leaning, arch mirrors, everything else I literally got to choose. Yeah. Cool. It was the sickest,  craziest time I ever did. Did I think all that or did it? Yes. Yes. That's nice. Did move my front desk. But it's okay.  I just did that.  Um, so is he's still there? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool.

He's still there. And you know, um, again, with the connection, I recommend so many of my clients, like, so, um, alpha does a lot of the digital perms. He does Oh, a lot. A lot of those really cool things. I have no fucking idea. Yeah. Okay. And, you know, it's not my clientele, but when my clientele us or they're like, I wanna change, I know where I can send you, you for that.

What? And it just so happens that when we were talking about selling and I was gonna move on, I thought, I'm just gonna have a sticky pick. I'm gonna just see what's around literally 400 meters up the road. There was a salon that had just become available. I was like, fuck off.  This is nuts for what you could spend.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I didn't even. Thank God again. It was like whoever is up there looking after us just waved their magic wand and was like, here you go.  Didn't have to take a business loan, didn't have to do anything of that. The salon. Yeah, it's not, it wasn't perfect to start with and only just now, actually in a couple of months we're gonna go through and do like a refurb, which is three and a half years later.

But I was so lucky that we could get in there. So in the set, in the space of 10 days. Oh wow. I literally was like paint, paint, paint. My husband got in, change the lighting, um, you know, kept the basins, everything as is. But like you've said on a previous podcast, you just get in and do it and just do it.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. You just do it.  So you, that point it was like, I,  um, can't do this for someone else. Mm-hmm. But if it was me and my blood,  certain tears mm-hmm. I can do this  partially. Yeah. Because still in my brain and I come from a family of tradies and.  You know, not, not being sexist or anything like that, but particularly the mal trades in my family, they had not really dealt with their finances that well.

Mm-hmm. So I think that's where the perspective of owning something really scared me. Mm-hmm. It really, really made me nervous. I am not  like I'm, you just spoke about  terrible with their finances. Oh my God. Feel, yes. If you have a tradie boyfriend just, or a husband, just like get them to listen to this podcast.

We do. Like Rising Finances, tradie edition. 'cause honestly, it works. You should, well, it's applicable. Mm-hmm. Ly if anyone's absolutely, like if anyone's listening and their partner is a trades person, you don't have to be.  The, her and beauty industry for the finance program? Mm-hmm. To be relevant to your business?

No, I do it with my partner. Shameless little plug there. But it's,  and but the thing is, is that you've gotta want it. Yeah. I think the hard thing is, is like, I, yeah, I have rising finances, my partner to a point, but they've gotta actually want to,  it's like when you guys take, when you're like, finally like, I'm gonna do this, you've gotta do it and know that you're gonna do it and implement it in all ways.

Yeah. Otherwise don't do it like you're gonna, it's like a Yeah. We've said many times, like a gym membership, you can't buy a gym membership and be thin. You have to go to the gym to, or get fit. You have to go to the gym to get fit. You can't just buy the gym membership. So you've gotta do it and make sure that you're doing it.

And you are passionate about it. And then you'll put everything into it and you'll see the change. Yeah. Yeah. You need to want these things. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Which is super interesting in this whole weird head space that I was in, because everyone else was behind me. My brother has his own pressure washing business in New South Wales.

Um, but he is just  incredibly into it, which is Makes sense, right? Mm-hmm. Um, so he's like, you can do this, you can do this. And all I'd had was listening to, again, like my family, the mal trades, just, you know, when they just take on jobs everywhere because they're so panicked that they're not gonna get that next job.

Yeah. And our industry, I guess it could be the same mm-hmm. If we've ran it that way. Mm-hmm. But I think that we haven't, and I don't even know the real answer to that, as to why we don't, but evolution has made it that way that we have appointments, it's quite consistent, X, Y, Z.  So. Everyone was like, you can do this, you can do this, you can do this.

And, and I say now that I feel like I almost got bullied into opening the salon, I was like, bye.  Do it. You were like standing on the edge and it was just like, and we'll just literally just push her over. Yeah. Just give her a little nudge. That's right. Yeah. And they didn't offer to pay for a nose job. No.

So I did it and that 10 day turnaround and then we opened the salon and I literally had boxes in the salon as clients were coming in. I feel so, so, so lucky that I was able to take those clients. So that's what I was gonna say. Yeah. Were you able to take those clients across from, because it was so close.

Yeah. Okay. So that's really good. So I didn't realize, so you built that other business from scratch. Mm-hmm. But when you actually went into yours, you had that sort of foundation Yeah. That you were able to take into it. Yep. That so good. So I had 18 months of, um, and it wasn't one of those things I, you know, I truly believe you can't steal people.

And even I have a really interesting, which, you know, could be another whole conversation, um, of my onboarding and offboarding processes. You can't steal people. I think it's super, and I think this is where my passion for human connection and rapport comes in that just tell people where you're going.

'cause they're gonna find out. And as a manager, and then I thought, okay, I'm gonna be an owner. I don't wanna be ridden off as the evil, you know, the evil sister or the one that was like, you can't have this and you can't, can't have this. And you, I don't know where they've gone and blah, blah blah. And I totally understand why there are contracts in place to protect businesses because  you know, history tells many tales.

Right? Mm. Awful, awful situations. But I have a smaller team, so it's controllable. Mm-hmm. And I have expanded my team and now brought it back down again. So yeah, I would, I feel like this is a real trend actually. Yeah. In the industry at the moment. Mm-hmm. Bringing your team back down. Oh yeah. Well, like you, I have many thoughts on this, but I don't not like, you know, when you're like running through your head, like I've been a business owner now for.

15 years. Mm-hmm.  Um,  and  you know, it's always, I think until you become a business owner that has staff mm-hmm. Um, you never quite understand  what it's like when a staff member believes and a clientele goes with them. Absolutely. It's huge because  I was talking about this the other day with, actually with my partner and  when a staff member believes sometimes away, like, and especially when you are an owner that is very, um, passionate about your people and mm-hmm.

And what you create, it very much feels like you are the one that's been broken up with. And you are sitting at home listening to Celine Dion and you know, you've gotta rebuild the pieces.  That person leaves and they're like, I love my life. Everything is so much better. Everything's so good. Look all, and you are like, when I was young,  you know, and  I explained this once to actually one of my team members who left, who was with me for a really long time.

Um, and I was, and she was like, I'd never actually thought about it like that. But then you also watch  people leave your business that you spent so much time making sure that your business could grow and could bring these people in, like they in your business because you did that and you understand that they were serviced by the people that obviously you, you paid look after them.

But then every time that happens too,  it almost, it can. And, and you know, I'm, we've just spoken about the beginning that I cannot deal with criticism  because I'm,  uh, and I think it's a, it's a superpower because I really generally care so much, but. It's really painful. Yeah. And it takes a long time, especially when you're a business owner that is so passionate about your business and being in it.

It takes a lot of time to be okay with the fact that people are going to leave and that's fine. But it's been an interesting,  it's an interesting evolvement to be okay with it. And then there's certain things that really hurt as well. And you know that it's not in when people leave and when they start their own journeys and stuff, it's never with contempt.

But the hard thing about it is when people do leave, there is generally a lot of secrecy behind it for them to set themselves up, which you understand. But again, it's like you are the boyfriend that's being cheated on. Mm-hmm. You know? Or the girlfriend that's being cheated on because all of it is behind the scenes.

It's like you started sliding into someone's dms before we'd officially broken up. Yep. I thought things were going okay. Yeah. And you were secretly swiping right on Tinder, or they have to, I don't know which way you swipe guys. I really don't. Yeah. But so. It's an interesting thing that you brought up because it is, and then it's not just with clients.

Mm-hmm. It can be with friends because you build clientele that are friends. You build staff that are friends. So you watch friends leave  and  in the back of your mind there is a failure point in that I failed that person, I failed that client. I fi I failed. And that noise can get really loud. Like, I think this is the important part of, um, making sure as business owners especially, and that I'm just about to go back to therapy, um, that we have therapists, we have psychologists, we have mental health plans help with that because.

It's really, it can be really tough, like, and you'll go through seasons where it won't feel so tough, tough and seasons that it will be really tough and you'll be questioning everything about yourself. And I think that it's really important to have that talk therapy with somebody that's outside of your business and be okay with that.

Because I still go through, you know, I had a really anxious week last week, and it's just you getting in your head and you, you know, deciding all of this noise and stuff like that. And as a business owner, it can be really tough. Yeah. So, you know, even though yes, we absolutely do not own clients, I completely agree with that.

It's a really hard lesson to take when you also know  that inside your business you need to make a certain amount in order to survive and for your team to be able to survive. So when someone walks away and can take a big chunk of that mm-hmm. That also feels rough. So there's all the emotional side behind, you know, how it makes you feel.

The fact that you are the one that's being broken up with and you can watch people go out and you're like, I'm real happy for you. But also I'm just like this boyfriend that's just like, I love you. What did I do wrong? Um, and also on this other side of that, the terrifying is my business going to be Okay?

Yeah. And at all times my business has been, but it doesn't make you not question it at each and every time. The uncertainty Yeah. Of the future. Yeah. And who is gonna be the next person that has to come in and fill that person's shoes when they  were a huge part of the family? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, interesting enough though, or interestingly enough I should say, um, what I've found the psychology behind this is when I've asked, not told.

Mm-hmm. So I just wanna make a really strong point in this, that I,  again, have very open discussions with my team, um, and.  I say to them, look, as a part of our off-boarding process now, yes, you've given me a notice, whether they're freelancers or whether they're full-time team members. We still have a very similar policies and procedures with off-boarding because they've just, when I've had freelancers, they've still used my booking system, they've still used my products.

Mm-hmm. They've still my, our sounds. Um, so it's still  quiet. Um, I don't know. What would you say like the word.  It's intertwined. It's intertwined. Yeah. That's exactly right. And I, I don't like disagree. I had a client actually yesterday, um, inquire about a staff member that's left. Mm-hmm. And I was just like, oh look, I'm really sorry that they're no longer with our team.

Yep. Um, and they were like, um, has she gone to another salon? And I was like, this is her name. Yeah. Please feel free to reach out to her on Instagram, because I'm never going to be the person exactly like that. That's going to be like, no, dunno where they are. We'd never ever do that. Um, and I think I, and I think how you do that with people and how, you know, um, I think it's a really important part, even if it feels, I think's even an important part for the clients because when they, 'cause they'll remember that.

And if some, at some point they can't get back in with that person or they'll be like, oh, that's right. These guys were so good about like, let me just see if they can. Yeah. I cannot tell We've had that a lot of the time. Yeah, we've had a lot as well. We've had a lot. It's incredible. It's, they respect you, the respect, the level of respect from your clients because they go.

Okay, cool. I think the thing is though is 95% of people ghost. Yeah. Yeah. 95% of people ghost. 95. 5% of people just like I'll get back in contact and you never hear 'em from again. Or people don't wanna have the uncomfortable conversations. And being in business for this long, I can see it like people don't wanna have the conversation of like, Hey, and I think it's, the avoidance is easier, right?

Let's, I'll just disappear into the background and then one day we'll have to have this awkward conversation of being like, Hey friend, where have you been? Other people do, and I think for us as, um, I think having salons, it is really nice when someone does reach out and say like, I've loved my experience with you.

Thank you so much for taking care of me. I'm gonna follow this stylist. And you're like, cool. Yeah. You know, that's okay. Like, thank you so much. You know, I'm always here, but it doesn't happen. I heard this really interesting podcast about this the other day though, and it was super. Upfront. The, the therapist that they had on to talk about this  and, and it was really, 'cause she's like, it's not your business.

She's like, it's none of your business. Why that person doesn't wanna come. It's like, whoa, okay. She's like, why do you think that you should know that it's not your business? I like, but I've never heard it from that opposite. I think I've said a few times before that when I get outta check, I have to remember this is a business.

Yeah. I think for us in this industry is it's so personal. Yeah. Like they become friends, they become, it is friends. You have friends sitting in your chair and then your friends smoke bomb you, you know, like it is friends sitting in your chair. You go through everything with them. It's like, so, but I do absolutely go at times.

This is a business. They don't owe me anything. They pay me to come to this business. That's, so that has been a, a massive, that's been a massive, like, they pay me to come here. It's not the other way around. Yeah. They can choose to do whatever you want, so. Absolutely. I think, but I think the hard thing is in this industry, it is so personal because they become friends or they are friends.

Yeah. It's not just like, you know, married Jew that, I don't know what that name came on. It's not like I was gonna say she's Mary Jo, but I was like, who's gonna say Mary Jo? So I said, Mary Jo,  no one has the name Mary J, but if your name's Mary Jew, welcome.  Um,  I think that it is because yeah, it's not just the random clients, it's the ones that you Yeah.

Have developed this massive relationship with. And again, they're still, you're still providing them a service, but it's those ones that you're like, you will constantly, why Yeah, what did I not do? And especially because. We are generally like quite emotional  creatures. Us as hairdressers. Absolutely. So then it's like that background noise, Sovia exactly what you were saying with the avoidance.

Mm. So when I  ask the team members to say, look, the salon on phone is there, could you please reach out to your client, your clients, let's block you off for the next two weeks. As soon as they've given me their notice. We don't need, there's no point I don't need you to take on new clients, but what I do need you to focus on is connecting via the cell and phone.

Mm-hmm. Whether it's text, whether it's a phone call, um, and just letting 'em know it is up to you how much you let those people know. Because exactly what you were saying, um, Jenna, about the therapist saying it's none of the business as to why people will leave,  regardless of whether it's a stylist or whether it's a client.

Right. That's, it's a personal thing. This is a business. Just letting you know. So I said that I put the ball in their court and say, this is your choice. It's your choice to let them know as much as you would like to let them know. Again, with the communication and the, the rapport that you have with certain guests,  that's, that's up to you how much you go into it.

How comfortable do you feel? That's not up to me. Mm-hmm. But I do ask that it's done through the salon phone, and I do ask that by the end of the two weeks you close off the rest of your books. I will go through and cross check them, you know, check in and make sure that everything's going okay along the way.

I'm still on the floor doing my thing. I'm behind the business, you know, doing that stuff as well. Um, but do you know how many times that we've realized that probably about a good 20% of the clients turn up to the next appointment. They've been moved  as a part of the offboarding process. And I've been told that.

Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's contacted and I'm like, okay. What am I supposed to do? Go back and check the fucking log, you know? Yeah. And the check's like, come on, this is where trust is involved, Ryan, not micromanaging,  but then the guests turn up to their new stylist and the stylist has been told that, yep, this client knows.

And they say, oh, hi, I'm blah blah. I'll be doing your hair today. And they go and the client goes, what?  And so avoidance is exactly how you were saying it's easier. And you think, wow, you give them the freedom of the of choice to how they can tell people in what space over the two weeks, they can tell the clients that they're leaving and still they go, boom.

And it's easier just to leave it all to someone else. So I guess there's a no win situation, right? In regards to, I can see why some salons just go, no, don't touch the phone, don't touch the books. We'll do it all. But I still like that connection. And again, this is, it's such a passionate, I think it's, I think it depends on who it's with.

Like I had and this situation, right? Absolutely. I had different team leave last year for different scenarios. I had.  Like three of them move. Mm-hmm. Out of state. Um, and you know, it depends on who it was on some, I had a staff member who had a big clientele when she came, so of course I was like, I understand you taking them, get in touch with them, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. Um, and I will, will message the rest and have again, a really, um, well-planned thought out message to make the client still feel  seen and heard. Yeah. But also we understood either way. Mm-hmm.  Um, and then we, I had a stylist that we actually, you know, sat and went through her books together and were like, she was like, that one's fine.

Move that one over. Put that one here. But I, we contacted them, but in, and then it was kind of like,  you know, whoever you take your take. Mm-hmm. But it was, it's also hard because you are, as the leader of the team,  you're also,  um, showing the rest of the team what's gonna happen. Yeah. And you also have to be very careful with that lead by example, because at the end of the day, you don't want.

To that to happen over and over and over again so that it depletes and depletes and depletes and every time you have to rebuild. So you've also gotta be very cautious of how that looks because  you know you're not gonna want to give everyone's clientele away every time. And I think there's this misconception that if you just have freelancers that that's not gonna happen.

And it really does still impact a business. You know what I mean? Like it's so funny. Yeah. You can say that. I, I don't know where that sort of came from, that there's so many people who think the model is to just have freelancers to, to not have that happen. Mm-hmm. It still does. It's so funny that you say that because when I started the business I was like, fine, we'll start this business and it's just gonna be me and my assistant and freelancers.

'cause they'll be their own boss.  What a fucking joke, what a stupid concept. Right. Because exactly what you say, these people still work in a suite or you know, a amongst people because they still want connection. Mm. And it's never gonna be as simple as saying, okay, well you do your thing and I'll be over here just to have a good chin work, you know?

Mm. If you want a coffee and going down the road, never gonna be that simple. Particularly when you're the one that owns the space. Mm-hmm. And owns, or owns the business, I should say. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, very quickly, learn plus revenue man. Mm-hmm. Like this is business, right? Yeah. So all of these, I guess,  you know, bumps in the road, they taught me that I actually really do enjoy running a business and owning the business and.

Leading by example and having all creating policies and procedures to grow a team where it works. Mm-hmm. And to have their feedback as well. So in turn, as we were saying before, if someone, if a team member believes, then we regroup afterwards. We say, okay, so how do we feel about this? What can we improve out of this situation as the owner, this is how I feel, this is how I believe it went.

Mm-hmm. Then the staff will have their input as well.  Of course, when this is first happening, not that we want a lot of people to leave, but like you say, everything, every circumstance is gonna be different. Right.  The team opens up and becomes more comfortable to speak more openly because we are creating a safe space.

Mm-hmm. So all of these things happening is exactly what led me.  To, yeah. Really love having the business and having the salon and really love going from being saying, okay, I've just got a skillset that I know that I'm good at. I know that I'm good at building rapport. Um, I love the connection, like human connection.

I love enneagrams and DISC profiling. So really strong studies on, um, human behaviors.  So I'm really enjoying this more, which is how Maine Union Mane Union evolved. Yes. It became, it blossomed. So explain what Maine Union is. So Maine as an MANE, like the Maine of hair. Mm-hmm. So Ava, like gu

awesome.  Whatever makes it stick.  So  Mane Union, I was gonna say fucking guava.  What did we do?  Um, Mane Union is healthy connection within a safe space. For Salon on Owners.  I really, really, really want people to come into wherever the space, and I'm not talking, I love these big events that are happening, but there are so many people, including myself, that I think a lot of hairdressers we are, and owners, we are introverted extroverts, introvert.

T we are done. At the end of the day, there is a huge disassociation happening. You know, when we walk out the door, we're like, ah, yeah. Alone. Nobody talk to me alone. Extroverted. Yeah. And then you're tired. You're so tired. And people talk to me, I'm like,  please stop talking to me. I'm really uncomfortable.

We did that yesterday. We tried a new church and I was like, afterwards I was like, I'm never going there again. Yeah. People saw new people and flocked to us and by the end I was like. Get me out of here, take me back to my church. That's dark and no one speaks to me unless I want them to speak to me. Yeah.

Like it's, it's a real thing. Yeah. And it seems so silly because we talk to people all day, every day, but it's my job. Different. But you walk in here, you're getting the sparkliest mm-hmm.  Version, the kindest sparkliest outgoing person. You'll meet. You talk to me in a place that is not here and I look like a Bambi.

I'm like,  me. Literally. Yeah.  I'm so awkward. I dunno what to say. Yep. Find me a friend that I can like, stick to and then I'll be Right. Literally me. But why do we do that in our spaces? Because we've created a safe space. This is our safe space. This is our sanctuary. We control what's going on within these walls, and our team is all happy and healthy.

The clients are happy and healthy. They, they choose to come in here because they feel good, which is exactly what I wanna create with Maine Union.  Again, I love these big events, but scares the fuck outta me. Um, when Look, thank you Lisa again. Shout out, um, you know, he said come up on stage and you know, have five minutes.

Oh my God. There was so much work coming out of my body. Like it was insane, but I did it and people at, well, Jen, you saw it. Yeah. And you were like, oh, this is cool. Um, so, and connections started happening. I don't need, and I don't particularly want Mane Union to start off being a 300 people event. I would love a coffee catch catch-ups with 10 people.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. I would love just a little bit of connection because there's huge amount of times where we walk into these spaces, particularly when there's really well known. Yes. Yeah. Um, and you just wanna know one person's face. Yeah. Like just, they're just one person. It intimidating. It's, I'm gonna know here.

Intimidating. It's really intimidating me in church. I found mine, I found one of my clients who's become a friend of mine and I was like, I didn't know you were here. Why are you here? 'cause she normally goes from my church. She was like, I just decided I needed to come today. And I was like, that's because he's like, she's gonna be freaked out.

Yeah. I'm gonna need a friend.  And to, I love you. Thank you for letting me hold onto you until I could escape. There's an SOS on  help. Yep. But this is exactly why. Yeah. Do you find, so that's that you're looking at creating those informal chats? Yes. Like those informal catchups. Now this is purely my opinion.

Mm-hmm.  I feel like the beauty industry, as opposed to the hair industry is way better at rocking up to these things. They're way better. I feel like they actually turn up. They all do.  Do out. And.  I can't tell you the number of people that I speak to. They're like, we just need connection. We just need more connection.

We, it is like, why aren't you coming to the things then do you mind? Do you wanna know what my theory is? Yes. It's because the musicians are so peaceful and graceful and elegant and quietly spoken and they don't spend their whole day throwing the sparkles over everyone's head, right. Doing all that stuff.

So they probably are in a different head spot. I'm sure they have so many of their own stresses going, uh, you know, on. Um, but yeah, maybe it's the different energy that we present and we feel some how obliged to present. When I walked in today and I said, oh my god, in my head, what an amazing cards that say this is.

You know, I'm here for ultimate. Healing and grounding and you know, this is my energy that I'm putting out today. I'd had like a silent appointment. I think that is so incredible because then you're allowing that, we used to have magazines right back in the day. Now we have our phone, but we all still look at our phone and can multitask.

Now it's like, no, no, I keep talking to me. I'm just still in this thing. Whereas back in the day when you have an appointment and someone picks up a magazine, it was like you read between lines, like you be quiet.  Whereas we don't have that now, which is what you've implemented here. So in turn, I guess that gives the stars an opportunity to switch off to and kind of be calm.

So maybe if we had more of those things than we would maybe be more like the beauty industry work. I don't know though. I work with a lot of beauty girls and they're just as high energy as we are. It depends on what type of beauty. Girls, I think when you're in the brows and stuff like that, they're still very chatting chatty and stuff.

It's different when you have a facial and a massage. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's because there is much in the brow industry, it's.  Much smaller teams generally I find like, generally like one and twos and threes and that's about like, it's not massive teams. Um, that they more need more connection too because it's not, you know, necessarily running big teams.

I don't know. I don't know what it is. I think there was just a movement and they've moved in the right direction. Yeah. Um, I think that, well we see it because we, that may not necessarily be true Jen. It's just 'cause we see the different side of it. Yeah, no, that's exactly right in who we've worked with.

Um, and honestly, if it's not true and you believe otherwise, please do share your input.  Um,  I think with hair,  I think also, um, yeah,  with bigger teams and stuff like that, we can be tapped out more. Yeah. Yeah. It's so easy to tap out, isn't it? And it's finding the time. Yeah. I think for everyone it's finding the time.

Um, when I've gone to some events. Um, if these connections, there's a lot,  a lot more humans. So I'm 38  in about five seconds. I'm 38, still 37, so I'll just say 37.  Um, they're much younger than me, so a lot of people don't have kids yet either. So when I've gone to these spaces, um, and I'm going to these spaces and having coffee, I'm the only one with children.

So sometimes it's hard because of the way, you know, and these catchups can be like 7:00 AM I'm like 7:00 AM is hectic in my household. We're thick of it at 7:00 AM Yeah. You know, so it also is depending on where people are in their lives because I think young  salon owners, young freelancers, it's a bit different 'cause it is just, it.

There isn't the other noise of having big families to run as well. Whereas for us trying to find that time, it needs to be in the book. Yeah.  It needs to be like priority based on how we need our cup field, because other things will come first. Yeah. And I think this is why I'm trying to keep it smaller because I'm 36, but I don't have children.

Yeah. So it's so interesting that you say that because as being in the same, in that age bracket, um, I find that a lot of my friends and um, people within the community and other owners have got families. So I'm, and again, with Mane Union, I'm trying to gauge what day works best. Mm. And exactly to your point.

Mm. No fucking day works best. No,  I'm like, as you  get it in the calendar, running it through my head as you were saying, and I was like, okay, well a Monday works, but then I've got someone rising afternoon. We literally this morning trying to do something. It's like, can you do this time? No. Can you do this time?

No. No. Can you do that? Can you do this? No. The commute, can you do this day? No. Can you do this day? No.  And I think too, I especially.  For where my life is now with having  so many children and having such a busy lifestyle, things have become really sacred to me. Yeah. So I, you know, I was like nothing after seven 30, sorry.

Nothing after seven 30. 'cause my sleep is really important now. 'cause it's the only way I function is getting up early with the kids. Otherwise I am an asshole to them and that is not fair. Yeah. And then Joan's like, I can do a Sunday. I'm like, Sunday's a sacred, Nope. Like, so you're actually, I'm actually putting strong boundaries into place as well.

So you're like, I need that connection, but I can't do that day because that's my, this day. Like it's an, yeah. It's an interesting struggle to try and find mm-hmm. How it fits with all of the missing, with all the parts. Yeah. Yeah. And so with Mane Union, what I've,  in my head by listening to the feedback is saying, don't punish the people.

With trying to, them trying to feel obliged to turn up to these things. Mm. When life is so hectic. Mm-hmm. So we try and do this quarterly. Mm-hmm. And you know what? Sometimes it doesn't work. Yeah. But again, because it's not a big event, which are stunning, but they take so much energy. Mm-hmm. So much time.

Mm-hmm. There's such an obligation. Sometimes people don't want big events. They want small connections. We found that like with our retreat. Mm-hmm.  Like all our girls, literally the best part of it, it was just sitting in our pajamas. How cool is that? Being in the spa, hanging out, chatting, being in our pajamas, eating, getting up in the mornings, going for a walk at the beach.

Like, it's just like everyone, it's finding a space for them to feel like they can actually come down and in rather than out and pretend no have to, you know, pitch  on's like no one has to, no one, no one turned to each other. The thing that I hate about church, and I love everything, is they have 30 seconds where you have to turn to the person next to you and say hi.

I was like, I don't want to, this is an introvert, it's worst nightmare. Every week I'm like, hi, I am really uncomfortable. I'll sit on the end so no one talks to me and I'll put the whole family next to me and I'll sit where no one can touch me. I just gotta go to the toilet in this bit straight after worship.

Um, because in spaces like that, it's like, don't make people, if people towards the end of it will feel more comfortable. Mm-hmm. And we, Jen and I have learned that with our teachings, but in that beginning point, it's just like, I just wanna shrink in here, but I still wanna feel seen. Yeah. I still want those.

So quarterly is perfect. Yeah. And I think another huge thing that I have, maybe it's the age bracket, maybe it's listening to feedback. Maybe we just start getting old. Who knows? Um, but. It's not, I'm so sick of everything that hairdressers seem to go to, it turns into a massive piss up. Yeah. And I was listening to podcasts previously, and I feel exactly the same way about the non-drinking.

Mm-hmm. Not saying it's a bad thing. Mm-hmm. You can do, everyone can do whatever they choose to do, but for our own  health and wellness mm-hmm. There's so many of us that are choosing that. That's a boundary. Mm-hmm. I actually don't wanna get up and feel like crap the next day. I don't wanna do this and I'm finding that this is what I wanna change with menu Union realizing it can be quarterly, it can be a small catch up.

Yeah. You don't have to, it can be morning. Don't, it  can be coffee, it can be breakfast. It can be breakfast. It doesn't have to be Yeah, that's right. Like and if you want it to, if you wanna go to those things, that's totally fine, Uhhuh. But there needs to be something for every different family. I'm like, I.

Be in bed and like mm-hmm. It is like again, yeah. Those things of finding like what, how is it gonna feel someone's cup? And we're very conscious of that when we do the retreat. It's all about making the people that are there Yeah. Feels taken care of, just like people feel in our salon. And it's really hard to do that when there are these extraordinarily huge events.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because there's two, 300 people. So yeah. It's about keeping it smaller. Um, and literally this month, I mean, we had a Mane Union event, um, mid-December. Mm-hmm. I personally was like,  no, no, I wasn't gonna do it. And then through other guests of Mane Union that I've connected with, they said, no, do it.

And you know what, who cares? Like, if it's only a few people, just do it. So then it doesn't get forgotten about. Yeah. Because this is my new baby. Mm. So it is easy to forget about it until it grows and the word gets out and people start speaking about it and people understand what it's about. Yeah. Okay.

So what do you want to.  Like if you were obviously with a platform, if you are saying to people, this is what I, this is the plan for this and this is what I want outta this, what does that look like? What is healthy connection? Yeah. Okay. Within our hairdressing community mm-hmm.  That you feel safe enough to speak about the things that we were taught aren't polite to speak about.

Mm-hmm. Because they are the things that we keep inside and just eat us up. Mm-hmm. We was taught for our whole lives. Don't speak about money, don't speak about team.  In turn, I really wanna get away from the fact that  you, I'm just gonna put it out there. You are not allowed to come to these events and bitch about other people.

Mm. Yeah. No. Mm.  That's ground rule. Absolutely Not having that energy mm-hmm. At Mane Union. Mm-hmm. This is about health connection. Mm. So yeah. That, that's that. I would say that. Yep. It's not here about to bitch about your team. What's your vision for it? Where do you want it to go? If you were looking at it in five years down the track, what are you doing?

I would like it to grow so I can have other people come in, other salon owners, um, and go interstate. Mm-hmm. Initially I'm keeping it more Brisbane or would like to keep it more Brisbane, gold Coast based. And I say Gold Coast because so many people commute. Mm-hmm. Yeah. In between. Um, and again, coming from New South Wales, it's not, actually, it's not a big deal because we, so, like I said, this where I was in comparison to Sydney was 80 kilometers away.

Yeah. I wouldn't think twice about going and having dinner in the CBD. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, but here everyone, you know, that time is sacred. Mm-hmm. So that's why I've kept it in a smaller vicinity. I would love to see that open up. I'd love to have other people that are able to help manage Mane Union in other big cities and states.

Mm-hmm. But still keep.  The soulfulness. Mm-hmm. The holistic growth, the holistic connection of Mane Union. Yep. I really, really, really do not wanna see it turn into the 300 people event. Yep. And I think that's just probably for me as well, and a lot, again, a lot of the feedback from friends and salon owners that are in that same age bracket.

Um, and teach that the younger generations that are coming through that it doesn't have to be big. You don't need a salon of 30, 40 people. You know, you don't have to just feel like you only can freelance  teaching them about the different avenues and just Yeah. Having healthy communication. Mm-hmm.  So  if someone's like, I love all of this.

Mm-hmm. How do they, do they just start following you on Insta? Mm-hmm. And then do you put events up? Are they ticketed events or, so now I'm actually going to be going into ticketed events. Yep. But again, low cost. Yeah. 'cause this is another huge thing. She's expensive. Yeah. Um, and we've also found, like for really good uptake, someone needs to invest something themselves.

Agree. Yeah. To, to actually, you know, commit to something. Yeah. To turn up. Right. Exactly. So yeah, you'll see it's, um, Maine Underscore Union and Instagram, or you can email info@mainunion.com au. Um, but essentially it's all Instagram based. I did have a Facebook page that I started, but then I was like, he gets lost.

Told you. Or  we had this conversation this morning.  Facebook is just like. I don't know. Like Facebook's dead. Yeah. Like in some, oh, I'm gonna be like Kylie Jen now. And everybody unsubscribes from Facebook. I told you. Thank you.  He's  like, Facebook, shut up.  Um, yeah. Completely agree. No one does anything on Facebook anymore, I think until you get a lot, a huge following and a huge platform.

Like there's a lot of, um,  platforms on, there's a lot of, um, groups Yeah. On Facebook where there's, it's New Zealand and Australia say Yeah. Or you know, Australia wide. Yeah. But again, it gets lo like the meaning of what you've created this for gets lost. Yeah. I personally think so. Yeah. Instagram's one of those things.

I mean, we're all visual. We're always talking about Yeah. How like we create more connection, how we support people and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, I think things it, you don't want it to be another thing that's on someone's to-do list to do that. Yeah. That they're like, oh, I must check into that because.

Someone might need that conversation or what has someone written something and no one's gotten back to it, and stuff like that. Like I manage  groups within our, um,  like programs that we do and stuff like that. So  it's also very much about not making people feel like they need to get into a space too.

Especially when they're after a day of work, they're so tapped out. It's exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, keeping it small, keeping it, um,  safe, holistic,  keeping people connected and letting them, if you don't, if you wanna turn up and you don't wanna say anything, this is not like, you know, it's not like an AA situation either.

Just saying,  we're not gonna have 20 people in a room, just being like, what's your problem? Yeah. Yeah. Next. Yeah. Hi, my name's Aimee and you know,  I'm obsessive over. Yeah. But I think the big lesson to learn with anything like this, and we spoke about this.  It reminds me of a situation we had when we were traveling last year and  you know, you're sitting down, it's like, so how's everything going?

Yeah, good. Literally.  Oh my God. And was like, oh really? It's a been a bit hard for me. Oh, thank God. It's been really hard, you know, it's like just being the person. I'm very raw. Like that. That like we, we went, yeah, when we were away, I was talking to Salon Oma that I knew and I was like, how's everything?

Amazing? Yep. Sounds great. Yep. Yeah, we downside. Yep. But it feels really good. And I was like,  I was like, I can just give this back or I can just be super honest. And I was like, really? And I was like, it feels a bit hard at the moment for us. And she was like, oh God, same. And I was like, was that interesting?

You know, you put on a facade because it's easier and no one wants to feel like they're failing. No God. Like no one's. Oh my God. And that's why I'm so vulnerable on this podcast and go like, things hurt. And you know, if I could be even more vulnerable, I would, but I also still protect.  My environment as well.

Yeah. And that's a big thing, even with Instagram, you have many people to protect too. Yeah. You know, you have, um, it's the same thing with Instagram. Like, it's like you have to  consider what you're putting out and what you're trying to get back from that. Yeah. And if you're trying to get back, I need everyone to get in right now and tell me how great this is and you don't get it.

It's gonna, you're gonna go on a downward spiral. So what are you actually trying to get outta Instagram when you post something? Mm-hmm. Is it for, you know, the, you know, and it's all of these things that we learn as we get older that we're like, huh, yep. I see that now. Yep. I needed rec, like I needed the recognition or that was very ego based.

And it's, so, it's very much about what we share because I think things like social media and stuff can Yeah. You know, for sure can be huge. You know, coming off, I came off, um, personal Instagram for about eight months. I reckon I was off four. Yeah. Um, maybe even longer. Um, but yeah, it's interesting those different avenues too of going.

You know, where am I sitting? What do I need? And if it is, yeah, connection and I need another salon owner that I can talk to about these things. I think I always say connection's really important. I have a beautiful group of women who all have salons on the coast that I feel very lucky to have. You know, just being able to drop in there and be like,  I'm really struggling.

And there was that, there's been points definitely that I'm like, I'm really struggling.  And then, you know, one of my girlfriends, Brooke, she owns paper rock, you know, one day she was like. Gave me this whole download of how she thought of it. And I was like, it's exactly actually what I needed at that point.

Thank you. It actually has made me come out of myself and have someone else's eyes on it. Yeah. So I think those type of connections are really important, which is why we know with that, with Salon Rising, that's really important as well. But it's all of those connections that are so important so that you don't feel so lonely.

It's like we've always, always said, it's like having a new baby and feeling really lonely and you trapped in the house and you don't know if you're doing it right. And you dunno if anyone else is struggling with the same things. And like, I remember that. And then the first mothers group I ever held at my house, 'cause I needed that.

Like everyone came and didn't leave for nine hours and we're all, I was like, are you guys gonna leave at some point? But everyone's just like, oh, thank God. And you know, just those little bits of advice in that safe space. Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's really important that we have those things because a shout out to my girls in my Boss Babe group.

Mm-hmm. Um, of a group of very, very special women that. You know, allow you to feel space safe within that space to be able to, you know, and I've got it in a lot of different, um, avenues. I'm very lucky. But if you don't have it, these are the spaces, these are the things you go to. Yeah. And if you're looking for it, this is the perfect way to find that.

Yeah. Like moving up from New South Wales, I was like, what the fuck have I done? Mm-hmm. You know, it's so many days. I remember when I was living at my mom's house and she would just come in, she's like,  what's going on? Because I would go from being so fun and just like, you know, holding it all in to just absolute meant to be.

And I was like, why did I come here?  Why did this happen? Um, and then you just have to remember you chose this, I chose this, and all the positive reasons of why we made this move. But yeah, it's lonely. That is the biggest thing. I have my, the start of my career, I was able to make all these connections by, you know, education and groups and.

Working at different salons and being a part of different teams. Um, so yeah, moving interstate in such a time where everyone was isolated in such a certain time. Yeah, yeah. And people really keeping to themselves. Mm. Um, understandably. Totally, totally get that. But yeah, I was like, wow, this is how I felt and I just don't, I would like to help other people not feel that way.

Feel like that. Yeah. And so she created Mane Union. Yeah. I love that. So Nice. And the new baby. Nice. Was born.  Love that. So we'll put all the details about Mane Union in the show notes. Obviously jump on Instagram handle again was Yeah. Maine Union. Maine Union. See what events are coming up, especially if you're in that sort of Brisbane area.

And watch the growth from there. Mm-hmm. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks so much for coming on, babe. Really, really appreciate it. Yeah, you are welcome. And if you're looking at the connection, you know where to go now.  Bye guys. Bye guys.