Salon Rising: The Podcast-peter mcdonald

Summary

In this episode of the Inner Sanctum, join us in Budapest as we celebrated 20 years of Kevin Murphy! We were lucky to be joined by special guest Peter McDonald, CEO and co-founder of the Kevin Murphy brand. Peter shares his journey from a shampoo salesman to the CEO of Kevin Murphy.

Peter has such a passion for the industry which is still very evident. We talk thoughtful communication and the importance of relationships within the industry. The evolving nature of the salon business. And how a passion for solving problems can drive success in the haircare industry. Peter also speaks into the importance of maintaining company culture. Adapting to social and digital changes and preparing the next generation to take over the business.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to the Inner Sanctum Salon Rising

00:13 Meet Peter McDonald: The Shampoo Salesman Extraordinaire

00:39 The Genesis of Kevin Murphy

01:40 Building a Business in Scandinavia

07:55 The Impact of COVID on the Hairdressing Industry

12:12 The Importance of Relationships in Business

28:07 The Role of Social Media and Digital Marketing

31:06 Marketing vs. Social Media: A Fascinating Divide

31:29 The Human Element in Social Media

32:08 Balancing Control and Freedom in Branding

32:19 The Power of Personal Connection

33:08 The Importance of Authenticity

34:17 Building Trust Through Social Media

34:56 The Role of Sales Reps in Client Relationships

35:50 Focusing on Others: A Key to Success

37:24 Personal Stories and Client Engagement

38:11 Solving Problems and Building Relationships

38:40 A Day in the Life: Personal Insights

39:44 Family Dynamics and Work-Life Balance

41:39 The Future of the Company

42:39 The Value of Industry Experience

43:16 The Journey of Growth and Success

52:08 Promoting the Hairdressing Industry

55:31 Changing the Narrative of the Industry

56:09 Conclusion and Gratitude

 Transcript

Welcome back to the Inner Sanctum Salon Rising, the podcast coming to you from Budapest.

Oh, location with our special guest. Shampoo salesman extraordinaire. Hello. Peter McDonald. Thank you so much. We understand that you're a busy man. Very busy. Running a busy company, so taking the time. I'm always running a busy company. Making sure somebody else is running the company. And I watch lazily from the distance.

Excellent. That's exactly how you want to run a business. Exactly. Now, for context, that you're not lazily running a business and you have created an incredible business. So Peter is the co founding brainchild of Kevin Murphy. I get accused of that. Um, I would say, um, Kenneth founded the product. So a friend of mine, a friend of his is a friend of mine.

Um, and, uh, she owned a, an apothecary on Bunswick street, Fitzroy. And she introduced me to Kevin and, uh, she went up and said, you've got to meet this guy, Kevin, he's brilliant, but he's skilled at business, probably lacking a little bit, but marginally. What? Us in the creative industry? Exactly. Yeah. He's, he's got nine, no, six or seven products in her shop and it had been going for nine, ten months.

Yeah. So I can't say I'm the founder. I think I found him and I think everyone's been a founder of, you know, Yeah. Each other since then. Wow. It was his, it was his, um, idea. He's. But you were in the industry, right? Yeah. I was at, I had a business in Scandinavia. Yeah. We sold products all over Scandinavia. Yep.

Moved back to Oz because I had got the rights for American Crew, went mop and defy for Oz. Yep. And, um, when I moved back, I wanted, I just, I wanted to be involved, I wanted to be involved with an Australian brand because I thought it would be, I thought it would be, I thought Cool as shit. To take an Aussie brand to the rest of the world.

Yes. Yeah. Because it's, and, and the thing with, with Kevin, um, you know, you don't know, you don't know what you don't know. So what I did know was that, I would, it wasn't going to be me was going to come up with a brand. Yeah, okay. And I wanted it to become, but I moved back to Australia in 2000 and I wanted to be, um, involved with a brand, but I had to find something because, well, it's not going to be my idea.

Yes. But you knew how to take the idea and make it great. Yeah. So yeah, I knew a lot of mods and all I need to play. Yeah. And. I moved back in 2000, um, quickly, Dr. Sheen, the fact that I was running on empty. So, I had to sell a lot of shampoo to stay, I had a wife and a little beautiful bambino. And, um, so I got back into selling American cream back in the day.

Um, I met Kevin late 2004. Um, I'd sold, we'd sold the business that we had in Scandinavia in 2003. So I had rapidly dwindling finances because I'm not that flash with money. I'm better at selling shampoo. Uh, I met Kevin and went, thought, I just went, this is it. I, I saw the products. When I went to a shop, went, I don't know, one of those moments in your life and thought, this is it.

I can see this killing it in Scandinavia because it was so simple, beautiful, different without screaming look at me. You know what I mean? So I thought this could be your answer. And early ethical and sustainable, which Scandinavia is so far ahead of the rest of the world and that kind of thing. So they would have been, yeah, I get that.

Wow. But so how did you get into the industry then? How did you end up? I was a skater guy with my mate over there saying he was five and in Austria. I did three seasons and I, I was looking at the people who were in, who could afford to stay because I was, I was getting food and board and working there.

So that's how I can afford to be at this ski resort. And I thought, Oh, I should get into business. Business looks like, because they want business people to come here. And that's how I get to do this all the time. And that's, that's an, uh, I was playing Aussie wool footy in Denmark and, uh, the guy who was the coach of the team, they got the rights for Joico in Denmark.

That was the first where we started and so I was selling Joico, uh, in Denmark in 94. As a rep? Well, I owned a sixth of that company. Yeah, wow. You know, please let me, I want to be a part of the company. Yeah, so I spent Joico in 94 and then more brands, more territory and I left in 2000 and all. And 99 actually, because we got the rights for American Crew and so on.

For Oz, I married back, he stayed there. And, uh, yeah, that business got sold in 2003. Uh, which made, gave me the money to actually put into Kevin Murphy. Wow. Little did I know it would cost that and more and much more. Yeah. But look at the return. 20 years. You've been interviewed by Celadon Rising. Yes. The podcast.

The podcast. That's it. Celadon Rising. See, Rich will keep us all on now.

So you clearly you've got a love for the industry because here you are 20 years on, like you've stayed in it. No, I saw. Wow. 30 years. So 30 years on. I'll give you the maths. Maths in the morning. But okay, so you've, you've founded this brand, you've put this money in like, where has it taken you? Obviously all over the place.

How has that sort of evolved? When did you know it was really working? When do I know it's really working? Is it working? It's totally working! We're at the 20 year anniversary, it's working! Um, when did I know it was working? I, I, at various stages through, you know, you, your sell on, your sell on, and then you You said you're, it's a bit of an icon in your area.

Yep. When did you know it was working? I still feel exactly the same way as you do, so I don't know, you just do it every day. So, so, so many years ago we were a 10 million company, we were a 50 million company, we were a 100 million company, we were a 150 million company, we're moving towards 200 million and it, it, it, um, I don't see it as work or not work, I think it's a constant state of work.

Yes. Ciao. Cause of evolution. And the bigger you get, the different issues that you have and then how you've got to kind of refine it. They're different and yet they're exactly the same. In fact, half the battle is, is, is actually keeping people thinking it is the same. It is the same no matter how big it gets.

Yeah. I sell shampoo to hairdressers who look after the clients and it's really, it's a simple thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's as simple as love and relationship. It's so that, and the bigger you get, we get cleverer, more skillsets, more um, what do you call it, skillsets? Acumen in little pockets, but that can enter complexity that quite honestly isn't needed, is it not needed?

It is to a point. Um, I would say, I mean the more, the bigger you get, finances, ordering Yeah. Procurement, these things, it, social and digital. Yeah. You know, all these, these needs, the better the intelligence you have Yeah. The better the company, but the relationships, the, the guts of the business.

Relationships with hairdressers. Yep. What do they want? Salespeople, what do they want? You know, it's What is the problem and how can you fix it? Yeah, or what can we do to inspire them? Yeah. Because I've got a A summary of where we're at as an industry right now is pre COVID, there was a, there was a, so there's my relationship selling to distributors, their relationship having salespeople, managers, educators, and so on, with sell ons, COVID happened and the world fell apart.

Yep. But quickly, you know, with government funding and all this sort of stuff, you know, a lot of people did actually not so bad out of it in the end. In fact, some thrived in that environment. You know, as a distributor, there was no travel, education, there was no costs. So you could, you know, if you had a warehouse full of product, you sold it, there's no cost to take all that cash away.

And I think from what I understand, a A lot of the hairdressing industry was looked after as well with government funding for staff and helping survive a really difficult time. Post COVID was horrible for a year or so because, um, the global supply chain went skew it. It went all over the shop. Yeah. So, you know, we couldn't get a cap or we couldn't get a piece on a, uh, Uh, on a, there was something ran out that was so important to the product that stuff was random stuff that really ruined, uh, for a year or so it was really difficult to know where you stood.

Yeah. Like an ingredient in color, you couldn't get it. Yeah. So you couldn't make color. Like it was, and it was super random. Yeah. So that, that happened. Then that, that, that passed. Yeah. And where we are now. So, and then they said you, you would, everybody would have heard, you know, that this, the COVID, um, brought forward, uh, the age of, of online.

Yes. Like at a hundred miles an hour. Yes. So where we're at right now is, Um, you know, there's, there's, there's businesses in the States I've heard that where they say, um, don't have products in your salon or don't do this and don't do that, or because that people are taking money off you and I hear a lot of different things that I haven't paid enough close attention to it.

I ultimately, I look at the business now before I didn't really think much about digital and social that much because it's not my era to be honest. I know it's important. So we have a department that does that. Yeah. And, and we will invest a lot more into it because from that's where it's heading. Well, yeah, because the, our industry is dominated by people in the twenties, not dominated, but as in, but it is populated mainly by people in twenties who live their life online.

And so the, the choices are made online. So you have to participate there. There's no avoiding it. Um, at the other side of it though, is still this, and this is what I think this is where it's headed. There's a laziness in that, um, post COVID and post all this stuff, people go, Oh, it's too hard, it's tough, it's too hard, it's all this stuff.

That is, in my opinion, or like humble opinion, that's nonsense. People come to hairdressers. Uh, love them. Mm-Hmm. , um, they entrust how they, the how they look Yeah. In, in them. And, um, hairdressers, um, and salespeople and distributors that it's odds tough as suit tough. It's, so it's not the case. Mm-Hmm. because the public sits there and wants the advice.

Mm-Hmm. wants the, the focus wants the attention. of a stylist, they want it, they want it completely and utterly. And so, um, ultimately for me, this leads back to one thing. So I love the fact we have Kevin Murphy and I love the fact that Kevin has to make all the decisions for the ingredients and so on because he won't do anything that's not the best.

Yeah. His skillsets are not money. Yes. He, he, Yeah, no, I mean, like, he's not. At all. Yeah. He's just so passionate about what he creates and how he does it. And when we had him on the podcast, it was so evident. He's like, his husband's been sick. And so he's, he's, um, any, so he's been looking after him and now, but now he's back, um, fully back into the business again.

Um, and he's passionate to do more product. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's that, but the, um, the, the, the point of it is, is that it's what the hairdressers is all about and what hairdressers, I think that the most important thing is the art of communication. Yeah. I agree. So it's not, there's a lot of hairdressers that make hair shorter.

A different color and a different shape. Yeah. But if you're not communicating, building a relationship, there's no trust. I've asked, I've done, I've asked so many hairdressers, stylists, all over the world once. Ask them, who's the best hairdresser? And they'll say, Kevin Murphy. Or they'll say, Robert Labrador.

Or they'll say, whoever. Yep. And I'll say, no, but closer to home, who's the busiest thing you sell on? You get close to the home and they say, um, is the person who does the best, do they make the hair a perfect cut? Not necessarily. The most successful person in themselves, are they the best cutter? No, not necessarily.

Are the best, do they paint the hair in a certain way that's better than anyone else? Is it the styling? No, it's the relationships that they form with their clients. They have absolutely and utterly meaningful conversations and relationships with their clients. They're rebooked, they sell all the products, they're constantly, when the door opens there, someone's in their chair.

When the door closes, they're saying goodbye to their last client and they are busy all day. And the one thing that separates them from the rest of the stylists, It's the relationship. It's the relationship. Yep. Yep. And they sell all the products. They do all the rebooking. They do all the colors. They do everything.

Yep. It's communication. Yeah. I remember in my apprenticeship, there was a girl that we worked with and she was rubbish. She was rubbish at being a hairdresser. Yeah. She had one of the biggest clientele's because she knew how to build. Relationships, and I think that's the case in all businesses. I think like our focus in solemn rising his community and relationships and being able to build that so that people know, like, so, so, you know, for us going down the path of working with sales reps as well to be able to support.

The salon owner, because for me being a salon owner, my, one of my most important relationships is my rep because she's my connection to the company that I work with. Um, and, and the source of information from the industry at large, because they speak to everyone. Salespeople, hairdressers underestimate their, their skills.

Yeah. Salespeople underestimate their, their knowledge. Yes. The, the, the more they, um, how would you say, have confidence in what they know and Yeah. It's that thing we say all the time, it's that, what is that one simple thing that you can tell someone that you think everybody knows? Because they don't. They don't.

They don't. And you'll tell them that one thing. Yeah. And all of a sudden it's like, you've changed my life. I didn't know that. Yeah. It's the same thing when it comes to a product that we speak in that a lot. So, so many salad owners, um, as I coach are like, I'm going to put an incentive in for retail. And I was like, do your staff actually know how to sell the product though?

And, or are they selling it or are they recommending and really finding out what your client's issue is? So a big script in our salad is, you know, What is your biggest problem and how can I solve it? I said, because believe me, if you solve their problem, they'd tell them 25 other people that you solve their problem and they love you and they love you because they can trust the knowledge that you're giving, like the, you actually want to give them your knowledge and help them just want to sell them something.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so stay there. Cause this, this is the, this is the crux of our industry when it comes to, it's, it's at the end of the service. Cause you always try to get people to see this. So at the end of a service, you've got a client who's had a head massage, they've been pampered, they've been blow dried, they've been looked after, they're half, they're so, so happy.

Then you've got the stylist who's got the next person lined up ready to go. So there's a complete disconnect in the energy levels. Yes. So they're like, yeah, you've got this person who's. Yeah. Walking out the cell like this, and there's the next, and the stylist is like, yeah, I've got to go. And so there's this, this is where the opportunity is missed.

Yes. Because that last two minutes is just simply, it's not the time to lose these products. What would you like? It's not the time. All throughout that time that that client has sat in your chair is when you should be laying the foundation that you don't even need to ask them by the time they get up.

They just take them and walk over in their bliss bubble and you move on to your next. And they will. So yeah, so conversation around product is It's at the beginning of the, it's the beginning of the book, like getting another date on the books because that's the relationship that you have. Yeah. We talk about that being the journey.

So are you taking your client on the journey? Are you speaking to the client when they're sitting in your chair or what you plan to do next? Right. How you can help them further. Yeah. Or are you just shutting that off? Like I've done a good haircut. Bye. Yeah. See, we're all about the journey of, of both, you know, are you offering all your knowledge and then are you giving, providing a journey of your life?

This is what I've used. Yeah. Yeah. July. Yes. Yes. What? When you, when you want to come back? Yeah. No, you don't ask them when they want to come back. You tell them. I've got some time here. There. I'd love for you to come back at this time because I feel like that's what's going to maintain. Best what we've done.

Best what I've done. I've got this time set aside for you. I'll see you. Beautiful. I'm coming back. You love this. I love you. It's a match made in heaven. I think that, so you, how long did you rep for? I'm as useful as tits on a ball on numbers in the office. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So you're better out being with people.

Relationship building. Hundred percent. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, that's, that's, I am a shampoo salesman. Yeah. But I think that's so important because I think there's a lot of, Even reps that come into this industry these days, our last, one of our last plots was with Tanya, our rep. Um, because there's a lot of reps that come into this industry and don't realize that relationships are the most important thing with your clientele.

You know, how can you take care of them? How, like, you know, we talk about, for example, I don't drink wine. So, so many companies will just show up with a bottle of wine. I'm like, what? That means nothing to me, but you know, Tanya showing up with donuts, you know, you're playing with fire. That's where it is for me.

Like I'm never leaving you. You just showed up with donuts. So we're talking about this too, in the, when it comes to relationships in how a salon is taken care of and how a salon owner is taken care of, because who takes care of us as a salon owner? Yeah. Like no one. Yeah. And if we, like, this is one of the things that I absolutely love about working with with Kevin is I feel really seen and taken care of.

As a salon owner, and that's really important because I want someone to have my back. So having a company that can do that is extraordinary. So when you're going out as a shampoo salesman So when are you coming to Austy and speaking to our sales people? I'm already doing that babe. You are? Yeah. Good. So our, one of our massive purposes in Salon Rising is to work with distributors to the sales reps and how sales reps can take care of the owner because then the owner can take care of their people and their people can take care of the head.

As I said, I look forward to you speaking to me. I feel really passionate about that because as a owner, my like Tanya being my rep and she's been my rep now for like 12 years, I have had that support massively and I need it, you know, and also who incentivize. Who incentivizes the owner? Like the owner is just the one that's constantly trying to keep everyone else passionate.

Having a company like this that supports us is massive because then my entire brand, my entire salon is with you. Kevin Murphy because that's all with Ozdare because that's what feels comfortable because I know that they've got my back and I can say Okay, I want to do this How can you support me?

Because I think a lot of hairdressers out there don't like again don't know business in the way that if you've got yeah Company on board with you. That's completely got you and held you in this But also a company like this that you look at you. You're the CEO of Kevin Murphy and you are the coolest, chillest dude that we've ever met.

Like, that's what people need to know. Hungover in Budapest. Yes. Tonight we've got obviously the massive show, the 20th year anniversary, but like people want to know who they're buying from and having a, like having a relationship, us getting to meet Kevin and getting to meet you. It only solidifies me as a salon owner more into this company because I love that it's branching down as family.

And as we've spent time to. We spend time with the boys this morning, like your real, your business is so relationship based. It's like a family. It's like a family. Yeah. And well, it's, it is relationship based. Yeah. You know what you were saying before about it's a big, fat, skinny, whatever company that's um, it, I was, there's a certain amount of people you can actually deal with at one time.

Yeah. For me, like once it's 3, 4, 5, 7 or eight people manage wise. Yeah. That's, I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. Too many balls in the air. Yeah. And so you, you have to populate your, um, business with people that, that align same, all the, the way through and then, and, um, but it's, I, um,

you have to manage a group of people. Mm-Hmm. you. The, the more people you have, you have to have more money to manage. To manage. Mm-Hmm. , how do get your message through there? Mm-Hmm. . But it's, it's, I, I have such an affinity I feel with. Sell on owners because we're small it's a bigger business now, but it's still it's but you were in the world of Giants Like you came into a world of Giants as a smaller business, then you've grown to this Yeah, but I feel the same.

It's the same sort of thing. It's just bigger. Yeah, so sell on owners You've got a run a business got a run paper. You've got a and Hairdressers, uh, really, it's, it's, what a, what a random group of people, best part of this industry is everyone's welcome. Yeah. If there's one thing I'd say that is the most, the best thing about this industry is that everyone is welcome.

In a world that seems to be more and more divided, the fact that this industry welcomes everyone I think is, makes it an absolutely spectacular business. And I think too, like we walked around yesterday, one of our big pillars for us and something that I'm so, um, passionate about is vulnerability. Yeah.

You know, sharing your vulnerabilities. Um, so that everyone feels comfortable to have the same as we were walking around yesterday for the food tour, you know, talking to different people and, you know, you know, sharing and having those deeper conversations because headdresses are really good at deep conversations and I don't want surface level.

I love a deep conversation like fear to cross into that vulnerability. Like, I don't want everybody to actually know how I'm feeling. I was talking to someone yesterday and I was like, how's the business? She's like, it's amazing. And Mine feels hard at the moment. She was like, same. And I was like, cool, let's talk about that.

Like, let's connect and it just letting other people feel seen and heard. But we get the chance in places like this, you know, you guys have brought us together in places like this to just feel like, Oh, thank God. Someone else feels the same way I do. And I think that's really cool for the fact I said to you before, like when you said, like, when do you know you've made it and you said to me, well, when do you know that you've kind of made it?

We don't, we're just kind of keep going. Yeah. I mean, we've got issues right now in America. That we need, that we're addressing. Yeah. And us as a company, we haven't made, I used to love making stuff and then putting it in salons everywhere. Yeah. And I haven't done this for years. Yeah. So you're going to see from Kevin Murphy over the next, well from now on.

Excellent. We're going to make stuff. Yeah. Um, with, with um, meaning for us as a brand, but also for hairdressers. Like we, we do, I've done a stand that we're going to put out in the next few months. You'll see it in the next few months. But it's basically, it's about hairdressers putting their favourite products on the shelf.

Yeah. Their favourite. favourite. Their favourites. And it's, it's real. It's, it's, the idea is for is one, you know, it's a good, it's a simple idea, which is the point. Um, but it's saying the hairdressers to stylists, your clients actually want what you love. Mm-Hmm. . Oh, there's stuff we love. This is stuff flies.

It's like, I'll have like a little bit of this and I'll mix it with that and a da da da. And that's creating what you love in that one product. Yeah. I'm the same. And you won't use something. Remember when I first used Restore, I'd had it sitting in my bathroom for so long. I'd never used it. And I used it and I was like, holy shit, this should have changed my life.

And then for the next couple of months, we couldn't keep that shit on the shelves. I was talking about it. It was so passionate about it. And it was the same. So when I first tried And how happy were your clients? So happy. Cause they're like, you literally solved an issue that I had. And I say that to my team all the time, I'll take everything away from you and we'll see how you go.

And they're like, do not do that. We cannot survive with the things that like You have like, it's like a prescription. If you can't survive, then how can you expect your clients to survive? If you couldn't do what you're sending them out the door. I remember the first time I tried Kevin Murphy, cause I wanted it because of how it looked.

Like I was like, our salon is so beautiful. And I wanted this like brand that just aligned. And when we first started, Came with them. We didn't get accepted when we first this was back like we had it. Yeah Yeah, it's accepted by Kim Murphy. Yeah, there was Not well, she's lives in Idaho now. Um, Felicity Davis our first educator She had a salon in a in a home in Cabarita.

Mm hmm. She said she was our best account for Kevin Murphy for the first two years. Wow. And then she came work with us full time. Wow. She had a salon in her home in Cabarita. Yeah. So when you said you're 10 Ks from, yeah, from, or south of Cabarita, it's like, well, I know Cabarita. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. She's, and she's still, um, she won't be here this weekend.

Look, I did bust a lot of balls with what I wanted, so that's probably why I didn't get accepted. I had my business hat on then and I was like, I want this, this and this. And I'm pretty sure they were like, this chick is not getting what we want. But I eventually got what I wanted, especially when Tanya came on board.

Just shows you never give up. You never give up. But I remember using, I think it was a curl cream and I was away in my caravan and I remember ringing Jen and I was like, we need this product ASAP. Like this is, Unbelievable. And once you use it, it's not just a beautifully aesthetic product. You get that from when you spoke to Kevin, did you feel his so much passion?

Yeah. I say like, I think it's very cool that you haven't listened to that episode because You are completely aligning with what he's, what's he saying. Like I say, he's got such a quiet tenacity. You could see that he's like this little unassuming, like beautiful man, but he's like, yeah, so that person told me I couldn't do that.

Oh yeah. So I did it. And then that person said I was never going to do this. So I did it. And then also like, I was out the back with like vats and product, like mixing it up. Yeah. So it was, and I think that makes the product even cooler that as you said, Kevin's back in and he's making like, he's making it.

It's he's in it. He's like aligned. And after 20 years, still so inspired to be in this business. Because he's got someone awesome supporting the business side of things so he can be all creative. So what is your, if you had like that day to day, what does your role look like within the business? Um, My day to day role, stay out of people's way, or get in their way.

Get in their way. You still seem just as passionate about this business now. I've never been more. Yeah. I think, I think right now the, um, our industry's in flux. Yeah. Um, the, the, the relationship, the, the, the strength of, of the rise of social and digital and its impact on business, not just ours. Yes. Every business.

Every business on the planet is affected by it. Yeah. Everyone. And, um, the hairdressing industry is fully affected by it and I'm quite sure it's across every industry. Every industry there's people who are making excuses why it's tough and there's people who are going, what's next? Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's never been a time when this industry's gone through, um, or industry has gone through such a change in what's, I don't know.

Everyone's not even aware that there's going to be a new norm. Yes. Oh, I agree. Yeah. And so. It's changing. Yeah. And so there is a new norm, but the, the, the fundamentals and this woman, like I said, I met this woman last night, Beth, who's, who ran distributorships across the East Coast of North America and ran huge businesses and she was, and she now runs a salon.

She's loaded. I think she's probably a bazillionaire. Yeah. But, um, she said, we still make hair shorter, change colors, different shades. Yeah. And people's hair continues to grow and they still want to look good. Lovely and they want the attention of someone who helps them. Yeah, and she said that's Not going to change and she's so right and I think even when it comes to socials We've gone through, like, watching it from, so, obviously, I, so I'm 37, so, I didn't have socials for a long time, and then I've almost, it's that, it's that age where we've gone from, I had, I experienced no socials, and then I've experienced socials heavily, so I kind of have bridged both, and back in the day, It was all about socials were all about presenting yourself and how everything looked.

Whereas a lot of the consumer now doesn't want any of that. They want relationships. They want to see. So this is why we are so passionate about the podcast, because we want to see the real people behind the brands. What does that actually look like? Instead of these massive, You know, multi billion dollar companies.

It's like, show us the people behind the brand that is building the brand. And what does that look like? And how passionate are they about their products? Because that's what makes people and people are savvy. People are savvy. Can consumers are savvy and they can see through the bullshit. So if you're not using, like, if you're not into the flow of the technology and the way that everything's going, but if you're not using it in an authentic way, they can see.

And it's, yeah, even that actually. Something interesting, maybe, maybe not. Um, we undergone the change from, again, 2019, 18, 19, and then COVID hit. Then, and what happened with social and digital, we weren't paying enough attention to it, did after. Um, but the marketing, our marketing department, uh, I know I mentioned this, it would have happened to a lot of people.

They instantly owned that space. Yeah. But they didn't understand it. Yes. And if I look at our IT digital, social digital department, Versus our marketing department, like the classic marketing department, the stuff that I'm used to and know. Yes. Um, they're different people. Yes. They're not the same. No, it's completely different.

And it's fascinating to watch. Social and marketing, completely different, which is funny, Richard's in marketing, and if I try and tell him anything about socials, he'll, I don't want to hear it, it's your job, that's your domain. Yeah. But socials is humanising. the product. Like socials is humanising. As long as you understand the person on the other end that you're trying to speak to.

Like the Kevins of the world. Yeah. This, they're so, so into the, into the look and the feel of a brand. Yeah. And like, it's not passionate. It's like it's death. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas social is, Abandoning that. Yes. And handing it over to your clients and let them run away with it. Yeah. And that, that's the conundrum for in the last five years.

I imagine there's so many people who've lost all their hair and. Yeah. Well, even for us. Because they can't control that. You can't control it. You control the brand to a point you have to. At the same time you also have to let it go. And let people run away with it. Fascinating. With socials, people want to buy from people.

That's why hairdressing is so powerful, right? Because people buy from people. So even for us with Salon Rising, yeah. Hairdressers, it's because they forget that that's the point. So with us with Salon Rising, You know, back in the day, the way that, you know, you would have probably put yourself across is very coaching and very marketing.

Now I'm like, there's videos of me, Richard's like, I need more of you on your walking mat, just talking crap. Like, and because all my clients, we could have sold so many walking mats. Um, because my, yeah, it's like a treadmill that you can walk and do your work. Yeah, I, because I showed up on it all the time.

That's great. You should buy one. You stand at your desk and walk. It's like a treadmill that you walk and walk at the same time. You should never heard of it. Hold on. Okay. Get the man a walking mat. Um, but yeah, so, though, and I would say to my clients, you know, I was talking about socials and how they can show up as themselves, and they were like, oh, but I don't know, and I was like, why did you buy from me?

And I was like, how'd you find me? And they're like, through social media. I'm like, what was I talking about? And they were like, probably something on your trademark. There you go. Or is it the beach with my family explaining how I live my life or I was talking through my finances like People want to buy from people and I think even in big corporations people still want to buy from people So I think for us being able to bring the message across and be like these are the people that are behind Kevin Murphy Yeah, yeah still Makes it someone.

I don't want to buy from you makes the hairdresser want to buy from you makes the like my whole You So, um, I think it's really important that our staff know the Kevin story and why and then why we're working with this company and even in Ausdair how I'm aligned to everybody that's inside it. But then that makes us passionate to sell to our clients and then our clients also love the idea of it not being this massive, you know, corporation where they can't.

You know what, as nice as that is. Mm. Yeah. It's actually, they don't care how big or small it is. Yeah. They trust you. You. Exactly right. And that's enough. Yeah. Quite honestly. Yeah. It's very true. When we were 10 million now we're much bigger. Yeah. Um, it's still. Just about what the hairdresser. Yeah. It's still about you.

Yeah. But then the hairdresser likes to know the backstory, right? So the hairdresser likes to know what they're going from. Yeah. And then they're more passionate about with their clients. Yeah. So they're like. That's, that's true. Yeah. But it's still your client. Yep. Wants you. Yeah. Yeah. But on your client.

So we're trusting you. Yeah. Yeah. But my point, it's just, it's stylists need to, um. It just comes back to that simple thing. It really does. Yeah. It really does. The sales, you know, our sales reps, DSCs, the business consultants. Yeah. Um, it's the people that you love to work with, the ones who care about you.

Yeah. Yep. Simple as that. Yep. If you, you know, um, if you get one who doesn't care about you. We won't last that long because I don't like them anymore. And it's the fact. Yeah. And it's fair enough. Yeah. Um, it's just for your clients, they, they, they want to know that you, they want you, they want you, they want your attention, they want your information, they want your advice, and they will continue to come back to you when you give it honestly.

And, and with care. So funny though, as you are saying that all I'm thinking of myself being the client and my sales rep being that Yeah. Because it's the same way. You know, you wanna have exactly the same thing with your sales rep. Okay, here's a tip for, this is a tip for, for, for people in general, in my opinion.

Yeah. It's, I always say, um, you wake up in the morning, most people wake up in the morning, then you, you get outta bed, you look at yourself, you go, Hmm, I need a shower. I need to brush my teeth. I need to clean my hair. Yeah. You get yourself ready. Most people, I would argue, they spend the rest of the day wondering how did I come across, how did I look, how did, how did I sound, how do I, this is just people in general.

The best people are the ones who, as soon as they brush their teeth, comb their hair and put on their clothes, They forget about themselves, and then it's about and focus on other people. They focus on the person that they're with. Yeah. And that, that, that just, that it's the spotlight. I say this or turn the spotlight around and focus on the people that you're with.

If you, if you are that person, you will be successful. You'll have a wonderful life. Because you are, and, and you're genuinely interested in the person with Yes. And in anything at all. Anything at all. Anything. Everything and anything. Great parents, great brothers and sisters, great friends, great lovers, great whatever, is when the, once you're out, you've gotten ready, it's about the other person.

Your life will be, and the people around you's life will be better than you're in it. Yeah. That's the imprint that you're leaving. It's the projection out. Yeah. Yeah. Rather than looking in. Yeah. What about me? How was I? Just kind of thinking. Where was I? Did you see me? How was, was, back to me, there I was.

Yeah. No. Yeah. I love that it's been, it's simple. Yeah. It's so simple. Yeah. Because again, with our clients, that's when they feel the most heard is when you're just like on them, on them all about and their stories. So like everybody has the most extraordinary stories. Yeah. Like we get to just be the listeners of all these incredible stories.

Yeah. Um, or. Giving them advice before. Yeah. When you impart that information. Yeah. They want, they actually Are someone giving you advice about how better Yeah. Every day. Yes. How many women don't want that? Yeah. How many people don't, how many men, women, cats and dogs and ya and grandparents and babies want, don't wanna look better and want your advice, want the problem sold.

Even my partner, he's like, oh, I've got, he's always got dandruff and he. Tell me how to fix it. Like, so I can fix it for him, but if he's been just so many places that have never helped him fix the issue, if someone helped him fix the issue, they would be a hero in his eyes, but so many people forget that, yeah, it's just about solving problems for other people.

That's what it is. Solving problems, keep it simple, build relationships, build relationships. So, to turn the spotlight, um, tell us like what's a day in the life for you? You don't, like where do you live? What's your family look like? Um, I've uh, an ex wife, new girlfriend, same woman, she dumped me. She came back, thank God, good one.

Um, I have a daughter, Hannah. So you have a ex, hold on, explain that, you have an ex wife, Hannah. Who's his new girlfriend. So they, she left and now they're back together. And that is the coolest. I think so. So how long were you married for? Um, uh, we, our daughter's, our daughter Johanna's 26. Yeah. So we were together before that, obviously.

Yeah, yeah. Um, so we got married in 20, what was it, 2001. Yeah. Yeah. And then? Broke up 2018 or 19. Yeah. Um, got back the year after, off and on, then. That's cool. Yeah. What change, what did you do differently to make it work? Yeah. Did you have a wake up call when she left? No. No? You're still the same? I think so.

Yeah, okay. Long distance. She's Danish, so it's a long distance romance. So it's, that's tough. Yeah. Um, you know. And I think Where are your mates? Well we live now be 'cause of my work. Yeah. I travel a lot. Yeah. And that was one of the issues for her history. Yeah. Um, there's, there's was the travel and you know, she was very happy being Danish and being stage in Denmark and Yeah.

Um, that cause friction. Yeah. And then I think when, and now when our, I a son, he's selling 11 in Melbourne. Oh yes. Your baby's gone to Melbourne. That's a bit exciting. That's fantastic. And now, so he's repping, isn't he? Yes. That's so cool. I agree. Yeah. So, and, and so we. And he's, we were talking about him this morning.

He's quite highly regarded on how a nicer human he is. Like, so he'll do well in this industry, obviously. Well, I hope so. Yep. You've raised him well. How's that though, like sending your baby off to the other end of the world? I suppose you've got a team there that you know. Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's another reason to come to Oz more often.

No problems with that. Yeah. Yeah. So, um. And where's your daughter? In Denmark. Yeah. She's studying. So she's hard at that. She's wonderful. I love that you and your wife are back together and she's your new girlfriend. That's the coolest. Yeah, that's great. That's great. Yeah. So how often do you travel? All the time.

Yeah, okay. He's of no fixed abode. No, we spend a fair bit of time out, and I spend a fair bit of time in Denmark, and a fair bit of time anywhere else. Yeah, okay. So a bit all over the shop. Running, so obviously you're the head of this incredible company, and then you've got underneath you all the distributors, is that right, and then you take care of them?

We sell to them, I look at them, you know, um, we sell to distributors all over the world. We own a number of distributorships, director, Kevin Murphy bought distributors out, which is interesting. Um, yeah. Yeah. So, my job is seeing them, my opportunities, um, what would my job be? Right now that I'm back running properly running the company and then my mission at the moment I've got a year, I reckon another year or a couple of years doing this max I'm not the best CEO I'll be honest I've got I've got a few things I want to do and that's it.

Yeah, once they're done I want a new norm in the company and then I want to leave. Yeah for somebody else to do it because it's and It's

interesting it's it's getting You Uh, so I've got ideas on what, I know what needs to happen because I've been selling shampoo to hairdressers. And I'm a sales guy. Yep. And quite honestly, that's the business. You're a, you're a shampoo relationship's man. Yeah. And so, the stuff that I want to do, that's basically going to make their lives better.

So much easier and I want that to be the new norm. And we haven't been doing that because I think we've had, you know, I was saying, we get better people, more clever and more specific and so on. So when you look at that, what does that look like? It sort of looks like, Oh, I think you need people from the industry to actually run the business.

Oh, absolutely. That's the disconnect. Yeah. Yeah. Boom. And that's what, that's what my summary would be that you need people who know you. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Know me. Yeah. You know, those are the people that need to run the business, I think. Yeah. I'm not right or wrong on that, it's just my theory. Yeah. Yep.

You're doing okay with your theory so far? So far. , you touch wood. They've played out okay so far. Yeah. Don't get too comfortable, Peter. I think that it's very cool looking at that, but it's like a, you know, a Rags to Riches story. You were like, Oh, you know, I was just some, you know, dude skiing, realized I wanted to be in a company.

And you've gone from that to where you are now is incredible. When you do it in a snapshot like that, yes, but it just happens over time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, um, and that's the good thing is I got my youngest brother Simon. So, uh, you know, he's a financial planner. The best thing is that we can just go and buy a new wetsuit or a new surfboard and not have to worry about it.

That would be the most, you know. Like people in their cars or watches or shit like that. I'm, I like surfing. I like snowboarding. I like paddling and skiing. So that's what I, that's my enjoying things that I like. Um, And you can go and do it. Yep. That's it. Taking the ego, like taking the ego out of it. And I've said this to clients, like.

If you want these things, why do you want to look successful or do you just actually want it? Like for me, it's just to be able to live a life where, yeah, if I want to go and buy something, I can just go buy it. Who cares about the money in the bank account as long as it affords me a life that if I want to go and, you know, spend money on the kids or if I want to take them on a holiday, I I can, but I think people get, I love the fact that you're so humble in that area because I think, I think most people are you'd find really, you know, there's everyone's horses are courses.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure I'm not the only one is the point. I don't think you're the only one, but I think you are a beautiful exception. You're welcome. I think you're worth coming down with a hangover for, they can't be beautiful. So, um, So I think the important thing, like you said it, you say it in a snapshot, but really it's been a huge journey and there's been highs and lows, great lows, right?

So, but the, yeah, the trajectory and anything doesn't go like this. It's. It's all over the shelf. Yeah. So on your exit. Yeah. What's, what's the plan? Um, the plan, for me the plan is, and because this is, I'm thinking this, I'm thinking about it now. Yeah. Because I want to pass the, um, the business on to the next person who's going to run it.

Mm. Uh, I want structures in place that, you know, Uh, things that, that we don't do now that we will do from now on. Yeah. So there's, and, um, that's a key for me and also to leave it. So there's, when someone takes over, there needs to be room for them to grow. So I don't want to take, I don't want to take over when I'm finished.

And here's the glass ceiling and you're just going to tap your head on it and you can't go anywhere else. Yeah. Business books. I read a book years ago called The Great Jim Collins and everyone gets something out of Yeah. When they read books, they'll be different. I would add, one was discipline. So the success isn't anything other than, it's actually, it's a discipline.

Yeah, getting up and going towards it again, every day. Yeah, it is that. And then the second one was that the people, great companies, um, have great culture. They have great, you know, and then the person that leads it, that can't be, it can't be all about them. Like you'd have been working in salons where, The person who owns it, it's all about them.

Those businesses. Will not last forever. And so, um, Has to be about your people. Yeah, and systems and, um, Yeah, you need people that understand that there's, there's going to be after them. So, it's, so, you know, I get told, you know, I've got a lot of people with, um, great ideas and information and you should hire this person and that, that, um, I don't want to hire anyone who, who's, who wants to sell the company.

Like you get a company outside, there's a lot of money involved. You get someone in who wants to get in there and Sell it. Okay. Because they're going to get paid out. Mmm. But see, I think the most valuable thing that I could give to my kids is the people. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know. So you've, you've got probably wealthy clients, you've got poor clients, you've got all these things.

Um, the, the, the best part of our people is how, how, um, is people. So I think that my greatest value that I could pass on to my kids is the people I've met. Mmm. That would be the, the best thing I can give them. More money is probably not what they need. Mmm. Yep. Yep. Well, they can make their own money, right?

Yeah. Especially if they've got the right people. Yeah. Knowing, having relationships with people everywhere is, I think is, that's as good for me as it gets. Mmm. That and being able to snowboard whenever you want. And surf. And the snow's good with my mate over there. If he gets up, cause it's

Okay, well we've talked about the legacy of your business. Yes. What about the legacy of your family? So your, your children are obviously your legacy. You're leaving them the people. What, are they both in the industry? Hannah's studying medicine. Really? She's clever. Must have got it from my mum. So's Charlie actually, but he's, he's over He's, I think you've interviewed Carlo, yeah, and, and Kevin, so he's grown up looking at these, you know, he's grown up looking at all these people, and now he's working with them and I think he's, he's still, which is delightful, 21, he's in awe of, I think he's in awe of a whole lot of the people that work, you know, he's sitting there going, wow, this is so cool, cause he's been seeing these guys for, for, men, women, all, you know, all the different people that we work with.

They're uncles. Yeah, yeah. They're family. Really, really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Um. He's uh, like Carlos, he's, he's, yeah speaking of he thinks, he sees the B's and the E's and the N's for pants His. Yeah. He's So, um, he's, He's he's grown up in the industry, you know, he's, he's Out there selling shampoo and salons that welcome him in and there's others who go, you can't tell me anything, you're 21, you don't even know your, your ass from your elbow.

You're like, mate, I've been in shampoo since I entered the world. I mean, he's sitting there going, yeah, you're right, okay, help me. You know, it's like, you've got to figure that all out. Um, and you had it, you know, she's so, Legacy is Um, you know, I'd like Charlie to, you know, like, you know, take over the business at some stage.

Yeah. Not for a long time. I love the fact that he's starting where you started to get to know, like go out and it's not about you taking over this massive business when you haven't, you don't actually know what it looks like. Go out and do it. Yeah. Yeah. Be a shampoo salesman. Yeah. Yeah. He needs to know, you, he needs to know that, he needs to know addresses, he needs to know the industry.

Yeah, that's powerful. And the best way to do it is walking through the front door of Salons. Yeah. And it's like, like I look at that in for our business too, when you say people, you know, like I work obviously with my brother and Jen's my best friend, so they are my kids. Our kids are seeing. to get there, their aunts and uncles.

So they see the work we do. You know, they're like, we're going overseas with auntie Jen and uncle rich. And it is the power of building companies where everybody feels like family. And we're having that discussion this morning at breakfast. And it was interesting listening to the boys and they were talking about like the grand prix, the grand, yeah.

And, you know, calling them uncle to their kids. And I just think that is that relationship is just so cool. Like looking at a company where everybody is close enough that it is aunts and uncles and they're watching them grow up, like how your son has with, you know, Kyle. I just think that's amazing. It's not just a, yeah, it really humanizes the company and makes it so much more than just a shampoo brand.

Yeah. Not just a shampoo, say it was wet. Yeah. Did you do before you, like, did you do anything, any uni or anything like that? Yeah. A degree in engineering. Wow. By the time I finished it, it took me too long to finish. Um, I knew one thing, I didn't want to be an engineer. Incredible. So there's a left and right.

overseas and I left and came back 10 years later. Yeah, this is it. And I think it's a really nice thing for people to realize as the industry grows and changes the different paths that you can take. Like there is, this industry offers so much. And do you know what the thing with the industry offering so much, what we as an industry need to, I got involved with, um, uh, sell on articles.

Sandy, Sandy Chung runs it. Yep, yep. No, anyway. No, I wasn't involved in that. I first heard it from Anthony Wynne Hulsha and Simon Pitts. The Australian Hair Council? The Australian Hair Council. Yeah, yeah. So they, when I spoke to them, their mission, what I understood that the mission was, was to promote the hairdressing industry to the public.

Because it's, you know, it's difficult to get staff. Mm. And over a year then just went, I mean, so I put the first, I think it was five or ten grand in, so the first money that went in was mine. Because I wanted to, I thought, yes. Yeah. The industry needs to promote itself. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't, it's we don't do a good enough job at telling people what a ripper career can be.

Oh, absolutely. We also had this conversation over breakfast this morning. People don't know. And also people think that it's not a lucrative career and I can 100 percent say that that is not the case. So what you've just said then is, you need to tell people how much money you can make as a successful stylist.

This is what the career can look like, this is the fun you can have, this is the money you can make. Yeah. This is what you need to do. Yeah. And this is how you do it. Yeah. Yes. And we don't, we need to do more of promoting just how fun and good and how profitable and what a great life you can have as a stylist.

Yeah. Absolutely. And, and letting people know how much money you can earn is a key because I think most people think, oh, poor, poor stylists don't, don't earn any money. It's rubbish. Yeah. There's some extremely successful stylists out there. Yeah. Stylists. Yeah. And we need to let people know about that so that we attract more people back into it so it's not like it's hard to get staff, it's like you have too many staff.

When we were talking to Kevin, he was saying when he went for an apprenticeship, there was like 150 people that were trying to get applied. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not now. Yeah, how do we make that how do we turn back the wheels or move them forward? We talked about that in the whole you're like, oh, I'm just a hairdresser.

Yeah, like you're not just a hairdresser It's redefining. Yeah, it's redefining the industry. So people realize What an extraordinary industry it is because it has been an industry hair and beauty that has had a stigma around it as not being prestigious or, you know, you just do that. It's a decision that we, we, we make, and it's a decision we can not make.

Yes. We need to not make it. Yeah. That one. Yeah. That's what has to, that just, so letting, sharing how much money you can make, how much, what you do, and how much fun it is. I think the other thing about that too is, um, there has been, and it's something that we've spoken in, there has been, uh, it's, there's a new generation going through, but the generation before mine, It was very much that boss mentality.

There was no breaks. Like you worked really hard as a hairdresser, you know, there was just, it was nonstop, you know, we've both come from it. Everyone we speak to is about the same, right? Whereas the industry is changing so much because the next level of leaders. And this is something we feel passionate about is changing, you know, we are about work life balance and about, you know, paying well and about educating and inspiring and really, you know, developing this business for ourselves that I'm hoping helps like the more it starts to become.

So the more everybody starts to step into that, I'm assuming, I'm hoping the industry starts to change as well, because it was in past generations. Not always the greatest place to work either because we had, you know, a lot of bosses, you know And it was a hard it was hard on your feet hard on your body hard on your mind all of those things But I think as the industry is changing that's evolving as well.

Absolutely I think that's the biggest takeaway that everyone not the biggest but one of the takeaways that everyone needs to take Today is that it's our responsibility to change the narrative around the industry And unless we step up and do that, nothing's ever going to change. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent.

Salon owner at a go. Salon at a time. Yeah. Yeah. Shampoo salesman at a time. Thank you so much for sharing with us and imparting your wisdom this morning. It's been great having a chat with you and we're so grateful that you've taken your time out of your trip away when you're a busy man to come and share your stories with us.

No worries. We look forward to partying with you tonight at the Salon. 20th anniversary. Yeah. And, um, really be able to share in everything that you have built. Yeah. I hope you can take a moment for that because. Because congratulations. It's amazing. That exists because of the two of you. Hopefully the lights don't fall down or something like that.

It's going to be amazing. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be fun. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be fun. so much.