Salon Rising: The Podcast

Transcript

A trigger warning. We will be discussing traumatic pregnancy loss during this episode, so if that is something that just feels too raw or triggering for you, we completely understand.

Please feel free to skip this episode or just know that as always, we will have in our show notes links to different places where you can get support if this is something that you are struggling with lovers, just a quick one. If you listen to us and you love us, could you please hit that subscribe button? I know it's a pain, but that little button means the world to us and our podcast and means that we can get more great guests on like we know you guys love listening to. So do a girl a favor, hit subscribe, and we would be so grateful. 

 Welcome to Salon Rising, the podcast, the inner sanctum. I don't do it well, Jen normally does this, but this is a very, very special solo episode, um, with myself and one of my favorite, favorite people.

And this discussion is very close to my heart. I'm very excited to be here and to be doing this. So this was like a, had to do it on Zoom, had to get it done, you know, for a very special reason.  Welcome everybody to Ash, 

um, from Social Coach Ash, who, you know, we rave about in. Salon Rising over and over again. You are so incredible at what you do, um, in every sense of the word. And you know, I've just gone through a challenge with you and it was extraordinary and you know, what, You were my best student.

Oh, thanks. What you bring to our industry is truly, truly special and how passionate you feel. So I'm very excited about this, but this is a different podcast to what

we normally do and, and something that feels really special. Um,  so welcome Ash. I'm gonna get you to talk now and, um, let's get into it. 

Yeah, let's Thank you. Thank you for having me I but yes, like said, I think, you know, we've dived straight into social media tips and tricks and those conversations and  this, I guess this topic, absolutely.

There's an overlap in terms of that, but yeah, it's a little bit more raw and real and a bit of an announcement, I guess. 

What are you announcing?

Yeah, well, I'm pregnant with my second pregnancy. 

Yay.  Yeah,

And I feel like, well, 

to say that out loud. 

you've kept it quite close. How far

along are you?  

so I am nearly 19 weeks, just shy of 19 weeks. So

in a bit more of a, um, safer zone I guess. But definitely feel ready to share and connect with other people who are, you know, have had a fam like, you know, had a business and a second child or brought another, a child into the, um, their world. And, um, I want your help.

I need your help. And they wanna connect with other families and ask you guys, how do you do it? How am I gonna do it guys? 

And it was,  it was really nice actually because, uh, you, um, I've kind of, you know, you and I are friends as well, so I've kind of been waiting  for you, you know, it's like everyone that had one baby and you're kind of waiting for the next announcement. Announcement. And I'm also very aware of ever asking people that, I guess because I have gone through loss, 

you know, with pre rehabbing Wilder, and it was a. Conversation you wanted to have. Um, and you said to me like, I just, it doesn't feel right just to throw up a post and not have any of the discussion behind it with kind of how

I'm feeling. And I really resonated and really loved that because I was 19 weeks, 20 weeks with Wylder before I announced I was pregnant 

because of the same thing.

And I think there is, you know, we always talk about there not being enough conversation around it, but I think it, yeah, when you said it, I was like, there's absolutely not enough conversation around it. And I would love to hear how you are feeling as you're traveling through it, um, and kind of what you've been through.

So other people are aware of it being a woman that's running a business that is, you know, got a little girl at home who is trying to do all the things and then go through the struggles that it takes to fall pregnant again and all of the things that go with that. And also how you're feeling now. So I think this is a really important

Yeah.  Yeah. Thank you. And yeah, and I have, like you said, I have been uming and ahing about when I'm, when I feel comfortable talking about how do I go about it. And it just kind of came to me about like, you know what, having a conversation with Samara, that's from the feel the most.  Authentic and um, safe space to talk about it.

And there's no way you can articulate everything you need to, you want to articulate and, you know, give respect to everyone and their journeys in one post, in one just post, that might just, you know, it is full of joy, but it's full of fear as well. And it's, it's, it's got that story of grief. So, um, and, you know, not everyone's  that interested, but if, if they, if someone did want to hear more, uh, you know, uh, speaking on a, a podcast is such a great avenue to be able to actually have a deeper conversation about how it all works and, and how, you know, how social media and showing up in social media as a business and where whatever your pain is or whatever your, what is going on in your life.

Like as a business owner, there's this expectation to show up now. 

Mm-hmm. 

it's important to talk about, I guess, how we navigate that and 

And I love that 

how you wanna do that.

you are so passionate about  growth in our industry and helping other business owners grow. And the conversation we have so many times as people are like, it's another full-time job and I feel so

overwhelmed by it and don't, and you know, and more than ever in the last, like I know your magic, but in the last month and seeing the growth that I have had, and it's been 700 plus followers and I've never seen growth like that. And it is incredible just with having your tips and you in my head, but I. I'm in a good space to do it. But the thing about that was even if you are feeling low, you had direction. But I can't

imagine navigating that and you navigate a social me media business and have to show up. Do you wanna tell everyone a bit, bit of on the lost side of this before we speak

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, um,  my first pregnancy was, you know, surprise pregnancy. I guess we were trying, but not trying. That old chestnut. And, um, it all happened quite easily and quickly. Um, for me, I actually started my business after my daughter was born, so Piper was two months old, and I hit publish on my website.

So  I, um, look, I had nothing to lose and, you know, it's, I, that ambition I had was, you know, amazing in reflection. But I was just excited to get started and, you know, I was starting from, you know, baseline as well, so I was only gonna build up momentum. So,

And I also

think for anyone that's listening to that, that is extraordinary, and anybody that says they can't do, like, I feel like you almost had the fire, like each pregnancy I've had, I've almost had more of a fire in my belly

afterwards and my business has

yeah.

But to go from bottom, nothing, you know, and building it and to where you are now and you've done that

with having a ba like any, no one can tell me that it's not possible to, to do a business and have the clients, and have the momentum that you've had in social media.

Because so many people say you can't grow a social media following anymore and you have

more than proven that you can

follow a, so you can grow a social media profile literally in this industry. 

Like, and you've done that while having a small bubble. 

yeah, yeah. And yeah, I do think, I hope my journey of my growth and raising a child at the same time shows, shows that, and I don't, I do think it resonates a lot of my clients, up parents and, and, um, growing their families. So, yeah, the, um, I, I definitely wasn't ready to have another, I always, you know, I always pictured a family as more than one child, but I did think the first two years for me was pretty intense.

I, I thought, you know, um, as a new mom and I definitely wasn't ready to start trying probably.  For until Piper would turn two, something clicked and I was like, I think, I think it's time. And well, I guess first off, you know, it was, it was taking a lot longer to fall pregnant and as an impatient business owner.

Um, and I'm third, I'm 36, so, you know, I was like aware of, you know, wanting it to happen in a certain timeframe. Um, so that was my first kind of shock that this might be harder or this might not happen. Um, you know, I got to the point of, um, going to my first appointment for IVF exploring IVF and I'm very, I was very grateful to actually fall pregnant that cycle, so I didn't need to continue.

So this was, uh, maybe mid last year. So yeah, was excited to be, um, pregnant even though it still took longer than I was expecting. But, you know, I hadn't experienced loss before. I, I went straight into planning mode. This is happening, this is, you know, this is how I'm.  Managing my business, this is what we're doing.

Um, and yeah, I, I just went, went ahead with, um, you know, just keeping it my little, my secret. Um, and then at about nine weeks I miscarried.

So it was a real, real shock, um, just because I, I'd never miscarried before. Um, and I, I guess I hadn't really properly prepared for that to happen. 

Um, I, I went to, you know, emergency hospital and you've had a pretty horrible experience of waiting 12 hours, like just pregnant up, like people who are further along than me getting triaged, which is,  I guess, the system.

But it's heartbreaking when you're in that position that you, you know, your life that you are carrying isn't as important as another person's. So that was a very grueling time of still being hopeful, but knowing something wasn't right. 

Um, 

Did you just

stop bleeding? 

Yeah,

Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Just slowly. So it was that whole kind of hope that, oh, maybe it's nothing.

Maybe it's nothing. And I think you kind of hold onto that for a long time until someone scans you and says no.

There's nothing. Yeah,

you can't. yeah.

And it is, that is the thing too, right? Is  it like, comes with the,  um, for me it came like.  You are already, for anyone that's a mom that's listening to this, you know, that, you know, you wipe and you kind of check every time. It's like

this psychological thing,

um, when you're, when you're pregnant.  Um, I think it's a psychological thing when you're a woman. I don't know if anyone else is the same, but we are just constantly waiting, you know,

month per month to, you know, get our period. We're making sure that it's not coming. And then

you are a mom and you're just like constantly on this edge of, and then it happens that day.

And there is no words to describe the sheer fear that

comes with what that comes with when you've already

started planning your entire world

and you know, it doesn't matter whether it's.  It doesn't matter how early it is, you are deeply connected to the fact that everything's changing and you know, you're developing your life and everything's, you know, and then you're

also running businesses.

So you are really tuned into how this is gonna affect my job. What is this gonna look like? How am I gonna support these people while I'm going through this? And then all of a sudden in a click in a wipe, your

entire life changes.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It, yeah, it was a,  a really difficult time and coupled with that, uh, you know, going through the procedures, taking time off and  thinking, you know, like, do I share this? Do I not share this like that? It's, it's a really challenging point because.  Yes. Like, uh, there's a part of me that, and I think it's everyone, people that miscarry, we all say, no, there's not enough people talking about this.

But it's, it's so hard in that moment to talk about it. There's something in protecting your peace and, and having time to yourself,  but it also,  there needs to be more awareness and there needs to be more of a community of support. So

Yeah,

A place almost women can go when they've gone through it. Some, and I'm, there might be forums and stuff, but it needs to be more open that 

women can get in there and speak to strangers and be like, this is what I'm going through. And I just need someone  to give me a little bit support because you know, you're told for the entire time, like, don't tell anyone until you're 12 weeks.

Don't tell anyone until you're 12 weeks. Don't, you know,

don't tell anybody you know, you know, and then it's like almost like a shame point. And you no one knows. And you're going through, you know, the worst time in your life, you're

going through all this. Grief  partners dunno how to support you. 'cause they don't understand like we understand And even though they, and they're grieving, but it's a different grief to us because there's also the, um. Almost the shame factor that you're like, my body should know how to do this. Why is it not? Like, why did it

fail? Why have I failed this?

you always blame yourself, don't you? That's, yeah. As much as they'll say  all the different things you hear, whether it's from a doctor or family, it was meant to be all those things. You, you still can't help but think it was me. I, you know, I didn't look after myself. It's my age. Like of course for me, definitely age factor.

And then you've got this fear of, can I, can I do this all over again? Are we going to, are we gonna start from scratch and still hang onto this hope? Or do I,  you know, start thinking of my future differently? Because, you know, you do wanna go through that all over again. 

Yes.

Yeah. 

really difficult time. 

So  I look, I love, I didn't. Um, so I've gone through two, um, one very early

and one at 10 weeks. So same thing. You

know, heard the heartbeat, went through all of that.

Tried for a really long time to get pregnant with wild. Um, so he was like two years, um, two years in the making

to get him.

And you know, so going through that and getting to that end, also the mind space that it takes when you are a business owner.  Um, and also going, do I share this? Do I not? Because you are, you don't wanna share it because you don't want people thinking, oh, she's just wanting to get a conversation out of this, or, you know

what I mean?

Like, you also think in the back of your head, if I share this, is someone just gonna think that I'm sharing this because  it's a social media thing or it's gonna

get traction. But really

it also feels like when you're in it, you're like  attention. Yeah. But when you're in it, you're just like, I want other women to know  that this  is like. That I'm experiencing it as well, and it happens and I just, I want other women to reach out that have been through this. And you know, I was lucky enough to have a friend who had gone through a miscarriage. So for me, miscarrying, you know, at that point it's so much more. So having someone that's like, this is normal.

This is okay when it gets to this point, do this. But just none of that happens with the medical system. No one knows what it looks like or what it's gonna feel like, and it just feels horrifying and terrifying and no one knows what to do. 

Absolutely. Yes. I did find one good resource called Pink Elephant. Um,  when, and they have a program where they, you have to apply, but you can be a part of like a, a group and get some consistent. You know, group, um, coaching around it. Um, but it's obviously privately funded or, you know, doesn't, they don't have enough funding and I wasn't, I wasn't able to make the group.

So, um, you know, it's good that there's resources out there, but it, there's definitely still not enough as well.

yeah, And then you just go, who do I, if you haven't experienced it,

who do I reach out to?  

Who can I talk to about this? Who's been through it? Who can

just like help? I don't wanna see anyone. I don't, I just wanna be in my own space, but like, who's been through this? It can be like, I see you

and I understand it, I feel you, and I'm, I'm here.

yeah, yeah. 

It's like this I

it's like this horrible  group that you become a part of that you never wanna be a

part of it, but you're a part of 

one, like the secret Club, isn't it? Yeah. 

You just feel

like, I don't wanna be in this club. Like I never wanted

to be in this club, but also I'm in this club, so I just have to

like embrace this club.

But then

also, no one's talking in this club, so please help me out. 

Yeah,

Yeah. 

it's really challenging. And  then, yeah, then I guess the trigger points. That's one thing I definitely wanted to talk about as well, 

Mm,  

now that small business, and it's what I do encourage it, we, we share more than just our small business. We share other sides of our lives and we, there, there's plenty of baby announcements in the, in the salon world, but at the same point, that's extremely triggering.

Um, and for me, I, I've, I've definitely made a, a big call after it happened. I took, um, I, yeah, I just basically muted ev anyone, anyone that had, and it had nothing to do with them. It, it's, it was just about  protecting,  yeah. What was triggering me, what was going to get me to spiral and what would, you know, probably make me cry is, is 

Mm. 

you know, those baby announcements or newborn babies.

mm-hmm.

It. I, I don't know if it's the universe or something, but you 

Mm-hmm. Everywhere. It's everywhere The day. Yeah. It was, I remember the day that it was  the biggest day for me. Um, and the, I, it's the day that I posted. So, interesting enough, when you're

ready to, like, when you're ready to share, like you did with me and be like, okay, I'm ready to share. 

The biggest day for me was the day I got my period back for the first time after Miscarrying 

and the sock of the blood.

It was like that PTSD of being like, oh, and that day, every single one, but one of my clients told me they were pregnant.

And  

Thanks. Thanks,

was just like, I just what? And that night I ended

up writing a big post and finally

saying what had happened. 

Acknowledging it.

But then you still, I. You still, yeah. Sitting with those trigger points.

They don't

stop. And it's, as you said, it's not like you're not happy for everybody else. Like you

love that everybody else is experiencing, but when you've gone through that loss, it's really, and I'm sure that is, is the case for anyone else that is experienced loss. You know, when people lose family members and then see people with family members, it's all those different

triggering points that triggers, triggers it.

But when your job is on social media full time,  

Mm-hmm.

navigating point. 

Yeah. Yeah. It, yeah. And yeah, in hindsight,  I don't a hundred percent know how I push through, but definitely think doing that muting activity definitely helped. And I had, you know, I had a week pause and I just cleaned my house, listened to the hundreds of podcasts, and just cleaned, cleaned my house, and, and tried to not consume,  not think about work.

And then I. 

You know, I, yeah, I went in, I guess, you know, I gave myself that week and then was like, I need to start showing up again. Whether it's just feed posts, I don't have to do talking in stories. I don't have to do anything extreme. But,  um, you know, if I, if I wait to stop for too long, it's gonna be, it's gonna feel even harder to, to get back into the rhythm.

Um, and I, I think I even, I even gave myself a, my, you know, a goal of doing an Instagram live. Why did I do that? Like,

in hindsight, but it probably was like the way I was like, I'm gonna force myself to  push through this, I guess, or still show up for my business,  um, as almost like at my, at my own challenge, I think.

And, you know, I, I, um, did a, a live tutorial maybe, maybe two weeks afterwards, um, with a very specific topic and the plan, and, and I presented that, you know, it's, it's. You guys have to go show shop back in, salon and face. What, how many clients a day who are like, what's been going on? How's your life? You know, so it's no different to that.

But my, my office, I guess is, is an Instagram live most weeks, or, you know, it is, it's, it's one of my constants. So, 

you know, I, 

But I love, like even for us in that world, I love how you were like, and we, you know, you speak about social being so important because that's what you do. I speak about social so important because I know the results that it brings and I know the difference

it makes to your business, especially working alongside you. Um, but it shows you that Yeah. At those times, even when you're a salon owner. And Yes, we have to step back in. I miscarried both. The Chi, both the, um, babies I had in salon. So both of

them happened at work. 

Um, 

Hmm. 

I remember you just have to like keep pushing. And then I'm like, if I keep pushing today, I'll get through today and then I'll put that aside and then I'll have the weekend to

regroup. And, you know, we

think it's gonna be, it's, it's okay, I'll get through this, it'll take a weekend and then we'll just, you know, get back on track again. But there does, there does come a point where you're like,  I can't just be sad about this. I have to, I have a whole business that is needing me to be in it.

And also I have to show up and show people that you can show up and it may be in a

different way, may not be an

Instagram Live, you're

Mm-hmm. 

shining star. Um, but you know, you think I have to show up 

Hmm. 

and because this is my business and this is what's,

this is what I'm feeling passionate about, even when it feels really hard to

do.

Did it 

And I knew, yeah.  Yeah. Well, I, I just think it just kept me moving forward and.  There's, I feel like fertility and these things,  they're really not that in your control. And  it's, it's all, I think for me it's like, focus on what you can control and I can control  marketing my business and, and educating people, but I, you know, I can't control how long it's gonna take or if I can fall pregnant again.

So diving into work, I guess is, is a, was a bit of a coping mechanism for me as well. 

Yeah. Amazing.  You're

incredible. Especially when you're jumping back into work and being, having to be so on  and

yes.

know.  Yeah,

and I think I had in the back of my head always that  I wanted to acknowledge it. I just didn't know when or how.  I, it's, it's, you know, it's played in my mind for, you know, any, anytime you do see something about miscarriages and loss, um, I, you know, it's always been like, this is a conversation I would, I would like to be a part of.

I, and until, you know, this, this opportunity kind of came up and I be chatting in dms, um, nothing else felt quite right of how to  talk about it or how to, you know, share it in a way that's,  yeah. Not just, yeah, not just some little post, you know? 

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think too, I think that's huge considering that you're in social media, like you're like, I need to talk

more on this. It can't just be, you know, that like your job is social media. You're like, I can't just show up in a post. I have to have a conversation. 

Because the thing is is if you know, we don't share, which so many people don't, and then you just find out down the track that they had gone through it. When you have public businesses, when you have the platform that you have, um, when you have businesses like you have, and we are all the time with women, you know, so often our businesses are, you know, are revolved around women and you have this public platform to be able to help serve when someone else goes through something like this.

So you

don't know by having this story that someone is going through at the same time and they're like, I just needed

to know that someone else is going through it. Or you don't know one day when you're working with someone that someone says to you, I've had a really bad week, I've lost a baby. And you go, I understand and I'm here and I'm so sorry 

because no one else understands.

Like, you understand when you've gone through it. And I think that when you

have a bigger platform, you wanna actually be able to say it and support other women that are going through it so that it is literally just someone landing in your dms and saying. I've just gone through this. Thank you for sharing.

Because the amount of messages and dms and things I got after that point 

when I shared was not for attention, but it was so comforting to hear that someone else was going through it or they'd experienced it or what their journey looked like. And it's just the conversation between women that helps to heal. 

Absolutely. It can be a really isolating and lonely grief. So that's, that's, that's the hope that talking about it is gonna do, is it's gonna just soften that loneliness that comes with it. 

Yeah. Just means that someone can reach out and say, I've gone through this, or I'm going through this. And I think

that, I think the platform of social media for that can be like, it can be so difficult, um, when you're going through it and you think, as you said, you think people are gonna think you're gonna do it for attention or, but social media has this ability. It's got the good and the bad on both sides, right? Like, and we forget, you know, we're like, oh, we forget that it has the bad when we are ready to share. And we know that people will have opinions, 

but it has so much good because women, there will be a majority of women that feel heard and seen. And if it

just changes, if this conversation just changes one woman's

Mm-hmm.

about it and feeling seen  and knowing that someone else went through it, or knowing that you know, how hard it is, or knowing how guilty you feel, or the shame around it or whatever that is, if you can just help one other person, and this podcast has done its job, 

Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, that's the, that's the goal. End of the day, and I'm. Also very, like, I, I'm aware, like, you know, I've only, I have only had one loss. There is people on,  have been on these journeys for a long time, you know, multiple losses or going through IVF. Like it's, I know in the scheme there is so many ways  this could be even, you know, worse.

So  I, yeah, it's, it's absolutely got nothing to do with  pity party at all. It, it is more,  you know, where I just think business owners are incredible. You know, like the more I'm working directly with salon owners, the more you just realize you've just, you've chosen such a hard path because you are so passionate, you know, like not, there's so many people that just accept these cookie cutter careers and working corporate or working for government nine to five, like. 

You've chosen to really make something and work hard. There's no way you can't work hard. You 

no way. Yeah. 

it's a, it's 

then you do. 

group of 

You hold that guilt too, and you are in this group, right? You hold also that guilt that you're like, did I work too much? Did I work too

hard? Was I on my feet too much? Was I, you know, am I meant to be just at home? Am I meant to be just taking care of these kids? Am I meant to slow down?

Am I meant to have this much, you know, because,  you know, you go through all of those things because you're like,  well, I don't think we were ever,  we were never meant to The what we can do as women,  while we carry babies and grow babies and give birth to them and feed them and build businesses at the same time, and take care of staff, and take care of all the other people and do all the social media, like, it is  truly phenomenal 

It is. It really 

we women can do this, how they can multitask, how they can, you know, and it's not even  carrying and growing the baby.

It's doing that while taking care of other children.

While running a business, while making sure everyone's needs are taken care of and making sure everyone's fed and everyone's alive, and no one gives us licenses to do this. But these day and age, we're doing all of the motherhood stuff with

running massive careers as well. 

yeah. Yeah, it's incredible and I really do look up to. My clients who are, are mothers and especially, you know, I guess  I, you know, we always, I don't want to compare myself, but you know, there's that little devil on my shoulder saying, oh, well you've only got one child. That's why you are able to do it.

Whatever.

no.  I

So there is that, 

I don't, I don't think that's never,  that's a thing too, like you just go, you, you absolutely can, you'll fi, you'll absolutely thrive again. And there'll be points where you're like, I can't do this and this is not gonna work. And I don't know how I do this and I don't know, you know?

But we have this innate ability and. To be able to do all the things that I actually don't know how,  you know,

Yeah, 

um, women just have, you know,  this incredible

ability and I 

fire in your belly. Yeah.

Mm.  Yep.  And I think if we don't have these conversations and there's a lot of conversations we still don't have, you know, I, um, going through what I've gone through, which most people know with my divorce, you know, over the last 18 months, you know that 'cause we're friends, but it's how much do you, you know, how much do you share and how much do you protect your peace on social

media?

The same thing with what we're

like with what that, um, I  you gave social media's really easy to rant on. Right. So there's

definitely been that situation where I've gone on one night and I just lost it. But again, it wasn't from a pa place of wanting people to, I. 

Sympathize with me. It was a

place of being like, who else is going through this?

And if anyone else is going

through this, I see you and I feel you. So having that response back of everyone being like, I understand this is hard, but then you've got the, also this massive, I work with clients, um, in Salon Rising constantly that are the same way. They're single moms and they're raising these babies on

their own and they're building businesses and they're trying to look after staff and they're trying to juggle, you know, the education days and having the kids and making sure that they're booked into kindy.

And then, you know, or on the flip side, you've got the same thing. You've got moms that are like desperate to have more children. 

So they're also going through different, they're running businesses while going through 

IVF routes and getting to the Appointments. and then going through the pregnancies and experiencing loss. And you're doing this while running a business, which at times can be easy and at other times can be horrifically hard. 

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. So I think  the next, this next chapter, like I, I, I guess my first trimester, I've been absolutely petrified, you know, and you would know the same, especially after two losses. The,  and I still, you know, until I'm holding her as a girl, yay.  

Oh, 

and in my arms, 

so your little girls?  Yes.

No,  um, until I'm holding it, I, I, I'm, it's gonna be a very anxious pregnancy compared to my pregnancy with Parker.

And

Yeah,

the first trimester was shocking in terms just mentally really, really shocking. My whole, my hormones were obviously influencing it too, but just the fear of it not  of losing in that first trimester was just like very riddling. And

Yep. 

I do, I definitely have turned a corner and have that a bit more confidence.

I, I feel a bit different. I've got a little bump to, you know, show when I'm ready.  So,  but you know, even falling pregnant after, again, absolute  blessing and. But it has been a journey in itself, you know, and then starting to navigate, when can I tell? Do I need to tell?  Yeah. And it's all kind of also came at the point where my business is probably growing.

It's at its peak growth period. I've never had more inquiries from brands. I've never had more in inquiry, like more bookings in my calendar. So it's collided at a, um, really interesting point. So

Yep. 

my first pregnancy, I was going from zero, but now I've got something to lose as well. I've got a bus, I've got a business and a relevance that I'm a bit,  you know, nervous about, making sure I keep that relevance as well, so

And how you 

I know.

Yeah.

how much time you take off. And I feel like

so many business owners have this too. It's like, okay, so how do I navigate how much time I have off? When do I finish?

When do I, what does that look like? And you know, do I take this much time off or that much time off? So  I guess, how are you looking at it now?

Like, you know, I

Yeah, yeah.

not sharing for a long time. You do get to a point where you're finally like, okay, I can talk about this. You know,

like I can announce it. Because even though you share with all your close personal people, you have such a

beautiful network of people that are bigger, right? So it's not

just like, you know, it's starting to share with the greater network for salon owners. It's sharing with our clients and finally being

able to wear our tummies out and, you know, speak about it and feel comfortable

about it. Um, and.  So I think that it's now looking at, you know, you've got this business that's going along so beautifully, what does that look like on the other side for you?

So how are you feeling about that? 

Yeah. Well, again, I'm very much inspired by my, my clients who. Have businesses already set up and have babies and you know,

that bus, that baby's born and that salon's still opening, operating with a team when they're not there. Like,

Yes. 

I think that's pretty epic that you guys are able to do that.

Obviously my structure looks a bit different, but that does give me a lot of hope and inspiration. Um, you know, you're not physically there, but you're still running a business. You know, you're still, you are looking at the books, you are looking at the bookings. So you can't really have a proper mat leave, I would assume.

Um, unless you get, you employ someone to completely do everything. But yeah,

I, I am, I think just being a business owner, you're going to be curious and I, that gives me a bit of, um, sense of community as well. 'cause I'll probably be, be like that. I'm still gonna,

I'm not gonna check Instagram the day of, but you know, I'm going, I will probably still, you know, have  activity going.

When I'm in that first month or second month of preg, um, of newborn stage. So definitely, obviously it's gonna be all online. So that's, and something I'm very lucky with  in being in the online education space. I do have, um, ways by my clients can self-serve. So I have a portfolio of five courses, which are all safe self-paced, so there's not so much that need for me to deliver anything specific to one person.

Um, and coupled with that, I've just, you know, I've just launched this 30 day challenge activity, which has had amazing success. So I definitely think that is a, a, a task I could do. Um.  In that period of, you know, low touch, not being super active, I can definitely still run a 30 day challenge and mentor a group of, of, um, hairdressers three Instagram dm.

'cause it worked, you know, you know, I've just done it with you guys. It worked. It was pretty low touch. You know, I checked in every day, but I could check in remotely by Instagram dm.  It's not, I do think that's something I'm more than happy to do breastfeeding or middle of the night if I need, um, you know, I'd rather be doing that than shopping, online shopping.

'cause I know, you know, 

Or 

on their phones. They're not sitting there in the dark doing nothing. They're on their 

no one's sitting in the dark. No one is sitting in the

dark. We're doing something. We're watching something. It's more so finding though, I think for me, like advice to you is like, yeah, definitely giving yourself those time offs because so

often we go to our phone and, and it's OK for me 'cause I have a separate. Mm. I have a, I have a personal page. So do you, 

but it's very easy when we have our phones and our businesses sitting there to be like, I'll just check it. And then you're feeding and

then you're like, oh, it's finished. But now I'll just like get back to that DM and now my brain is ticking and maybe I could do this in the morning.

And then it gets to the morning and you're like, why did I do that? I'm

so exhausted. 

quickly spiral with tasks. Absolutely.  

because it's very easy to go 

back into business head. And I

think specifically with Wilder, I definitely was better with being like,  and this, do you plan to have any more, or do you think that this

No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I think that's good knowing going in because yes, you're like, yeah, savor it. You know? This will be the 

And savor it. It's the last the first time you're like.  I feel like the first time you go through it you're like, I have no idea what I'm doing, so I'm not sure how to do this. And it's terrifying and it's a lot more, whereas the second time you kind of know a lot of the things so you can

relax more personally,

whereas you, and you didn't have a business last time with her, I would say to you, just be very conscious and every business owner

probably that has kids and have had kids through their business as well, especially when she's gonna be your last, will say like, you don't get this time back,

like you don't get  this time back.

So it's also really important, as much as we wanna run our businesses, to put our personal lives first as well, and go,

I'm not going to, I'm going to regret  running a 30 day challenge, five minutes into having her, but I'm never going to regret, I'm never going to regret taking, you know, some

time off to just indulge the fact that this is my daughter and this is my

personal life and 

Okay. Maybe, maybe I'll do the challenge two or three months postpartum.

That's much better. I'll probably be banging for it by that point. I'll be

like, come on, are you done? I need some challenge. Um, but I absolutely think that we don't give ourselves a break. And if I can say that to any mom, like we don't give ourselves that time, we kind of switch back in. I did it. Um,

I can't talk. I built Salon Rising 

three months after W Wild was born.  Um, but I was able to be out of  Ella, so I was very grateful

for that at that point to be able to be out

of this business. 

Um, but you don't get that time back. And I think it's a reminder not only for when you're pregnant, but in business itself, that we don't get our children back at this age.

And

if we aren't prioritizing also personal lives, it's um, it can be a dangerous slope because we'll get to a point where we'll be like, why was my entire life work? And because we are

mothers, they need us differently. 

Mm. 

Yeah.

No, they definitely do. No, it's, it's very good advice and  I'll definitely take it on board. And there are things, I guess, systems, when it's online though, that you literally don't have to lift a finger and it could, things can be ticking along. You know, there's social advertising, which is absolutely in reach for salons as well.

Like if, you know, you don't have capacity to organically post, there is always advertising, you know, it's set and forget it's happening in the background, reaching a new audience. So I'll definitely, I'm investing a bit more in, in my ad strategy so that

it's, it's happening ticking away without me having to be on organically. 

yeah.

But how cool is that? Like I think as you experience things like you are like, okay, this is what I'm doing and I'm putting into place. 

Come the other side of this. Once you've done it and it's worked. You are gonna be able to say to business owners that are in the same predicament as you, this is how you keep your social media ticking along while you go on maternity

leave. Take, you know, this is how I can set you up. You know,

back when you had, you know, PIP, at the beginning it was just building a business. You didn't know what that looked

like. But now that you've built this beautiful business, you actually get to refine the next section of this, which

is, okay, how do I support business owners when they go on maternity leave so

that they can come off social media for a couple of months, you know, a month

or six weeks and it doesn't affect their business?

How can we set up their posts? How can everything be scheduled? How can we make sure

their team's got their dms? How can we do this

strategy? And I think you can only learn that by you going through this and then being able to teach it, which is what you've done for

everything else. That's really

Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I look forward to reporting back.

Yeah.

it's, it's like, you know, it is that scary thought. You,  you still really don't know what it's gonna be, even though,  you know, I've been here before. You just, you don't dunno what it's gonna be like with multiple kids, you know?

And

there's, I think when you have one and, uh, 'cause um, a lot of my, my sister's already got two, a lot of my friends from high school had kids a lot younger than me. So  it's, I do have, I've always been a little bit, like, I felt a bit behind and a little bit like, oh, everyone kind of scares me a little bit about how much harder it is with two.

So

it's, um,  that, that's, 

look, I would, 

that's, yeah,

I just, I look how old's fit now. 

she's three, so she'll be three and a half.

Yeah. Okay. So. I think you gonna have the ups and downs when you say anyone, you know, I'm having another baby and they're like, oh two. I found the big to be my personal view, the first is the hardest. No one knows what we're

doing. We're just like, no one knows how the birth is gonna go or how you're gonna breastfeed or what it's

gonna look like or anything. I I found going to two was easy because I already knew what I was doing. Like I already knew what I

was doing. I knew how to feed and I knew the experience with birth. And you're already doing it for one human. It's just doing it for another, 

Yeah. Yeah.

know? And I think, 

lifestyle change. It's 

no,  

more, 

it's

just more  

more Peter Rabbit.

And she'll

be at a really nice age too, because my girls are three

years apart and

Alba was really helpful.

You know, like, again, though, it's different seasons, but I think, like, I think don't go into it thinking, God, everyone says that two is hard. The

second one is hard.  was not for me, the case in the slightest, like it was

You know, and, and people say they couldn't start a new business with a on mat 

New baby. Yeah.  Yeah. 

So

I literally only

I'll listen to advice, but I'm always like, ah, we'll see. We'll see how, how it works for me. 

the hell it works for me. Yeah.

I, as I said, I only had more fire in my belly after each pregnancy, 

so  

I love hearing 

grew, my business grew with each baby because  as much as I loved being a mom,  um, it also gave me time and space because I was at home on mat leave. It gave me time and space where I could.  Rethink things and decide where I wanted to go. And then that gave me a new fire to be like, okay, I wanna change things up, or I wanna do something different. Or, you know, and I'm like, I love being a mom, but my, if I had to be a stay at home mom, I would probably do myself in like, I could not. And I think

stay at home moms, uh, incredible.

My sister, um, my baby sister is a stay at home mom and she's

insane. Like, she just loves it and fros it and, you know, she

homeschools and it's just like a, and it's her

whole life and she just is so good at it. If I had to do that, I dunno if I would survive. 

yeah, yeah. These are,  yeah.

so our businesses get this little spark behind them because I think we become appreciative of having the outlet of what our jobs are, especially when we love them. 

Yeah. Absolutely. I think there's a little quote that's like, if work makes you hum, the whole family sings along, which I really 

Oh, I love that. 

It's like a, a happy mom is a good, a great mom, and if working makes you calm, the whole family sings along. Yeah.

Oh my God, I love that. It's so true.

Mm-hmm.

It's so

true. It's so true when you feel lit up by what you do. And I think that we go through ebbs and flows business. For anyone that's listening, you all

have businesses and it is ebbs and flows. Some days it is amazing and other days it is.  Burn it down, you know? And it's really easy to get caught up in.  Um, it's really get easy to get caught up in the, the shitty times and we forget the good times that I think that when we, you know, can kind of refocus and, and when we're going through that mat leave section, we realize how much we love it. 

Yeah. 

So it's really easy to come. Yeah, it's easy to be like,

I wanna jump into this conversation now.

I wanna DM with this person. I wanna help them grow their social media. I wanna take an

amazing photo. I wanna get back with my clients and I wanna feel inspired with my team again.

And it really just helps to like kind of get that fire back in your belly to go again. Especially when

you have, you know, you are still, and it's the magic of women still breastfeeding.

You've got a baby, you're taking a video.  know?  I

And did you travel? I feel like you even, you traveled quite  relative, like still breastfeeding. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yep. I had my pumps on and I had to like make sure that wherever I went there was, um.  But again, it was an opportunity at that time that I really thought I wanted, I really thought I wanted to

travel and do hairdressing education. 

Um, so it was an opportunity I couldn't turn down. But when I did

it, I actually, like, I loved

the education part, but I hated the travel. 

Yeah. Yeah.

me it just, it's one of those things sometimes you're like, I have to do this because I have to see

Do it to,

kind of lit lights me up, but it didn't.

That is too much. Like, and I was only gone for probably I would leave on a Sunday and back on a Monday night late.

So I was not gone from my kids for long, but 

it was also in a really hard time of my life personally. But, 

um, it's definitely, you know, it's, I think sometimes I was having this conversation with a client this morning and sometimes what you think you want. You do

and you don't want, you know, I

thought that I was gonna be a stay at home mom like I was.

Like, when I fell pregnant with Alabama, I was like, this is it. Stay at home mom. This is gonna be me. And I did it and I was back to work within three weeks. Not that I wanted to be work, work that early. I had to 'cause of the business. 

But I was like, I can't, I can't just be a stay at home mom. I need to go to work.

I need to feel that recognition from other places. And I think that's a big hairdressing

thing too, and you probably feel aligned with that as well, is like, I need to go and someone tell me that I'm doing a good job or that I've helped them some way, or

that I've made a difference today, rather than just like still in my underwear and my pajamas with

breast milk all over me and like slowly going insane.

I need to get outta the house. 

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, yeah, yeah. Travel's. I, I agree. Like, I think when you're ambitious, you think a part of that is definitely ticking off the travel. And there's still travel. I guess  they're about near my big travel goals for work would, would to go overseas. But I know realistically I know that's not gonna happen for a couple of years now.

Um, it, you know, when I was back working for the hair distributor, you know, I just, before Covid hit, I was meant to go to New York with them. And that was a, like, that was for me, like such a tick off the bucket list. You're going to New York for work. So it's, but it's, you know, like, like you said, I've, now, I've done so much, I have done so much travel and I, I, I, I do still enjoy it, but it, it, you, you have to, there's so much more to weigh up, you know, there's,  you know, leave leaving a family at home. 

And how that feels.  Yeah, it definitely has a big factor to whether the opportunity is right 

yes. to do 

But you, you can't, you don't know unless you've done it.

you, you know, if you're educating on a Monday, you're leaving at midday on a Sunday, you're getting ready in the morning, you're

leaving at midday on a Sunday, you're getting there, you're sleeping in some shitty motel. It's not like it's fancy. You don't sleep well, you're exhausted.

You get up

early as hell. Grab some rain coffee from somewhere,  like educate all day straight to the airport, sit at an

airport home and then your week sta starts.

So shonky,  

Yeah. Absolutely.

and you do get to a point where you go, it doesn't, the good,  the good doesn't outweigh the bad, you know? And those extra time at home and me being able to have a nap on a Sunday, and  you know, being able to have.  The kids lunchbox is done for the Monday. And you know, just

doing all of those things, like, you've gotta start weighing up where things lay. And I think this is even important for any business owner that's looking at it, that looks at their hours and stuff like that. Like if it feels too much, if you're overwhelmed, if you stop loving it exactly like that quote, you just, you know, said if you stop, you know,

coming along and you, 

yet.

know, you, you have to adjust.

And if that is changing your hours, like we don't work at Ella, we only work Tuesday, um, to Friday 

because of the fact that my personal life, I love being in my team, but my personal life on a Saturday is too important and I don't want to have any part of me, whether I work or not, I don't have any part of me  untuned to my children and tuned into my business because when the business is open, no matter what, you are always tuned in. 

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You are, um, you're completely focused on, on each,

Yeah, I think, you know, that was, it's the whole conversation around boundaries. Boundaries is stepping out of one area into another 

and having a boundary between it. It's the same when it comes to parenting,

when it comes to motherhood. Stepping out of your business and stepping into your personal life and

trying not to do both, you know, trying to do one and then going into the other and vice

versa, rather than, you know, dipping into both.

Because I know even for me, you know, with having the kids,  if I'm on my phone on socials trying to do stuff, and they're at, they're talking at me, I, my.  Attention. I'm like, aggravated because I'm trying to do

something and they're talking at me. And then you just feel

terrible 'cause you're yelling 

and you're trying to do something.

Um, so even like having those boundaries where you can go, okay, I am gonna de, I'm actually dedicating 30 minutes to work and telling, like, telling,

my kids I'm dedicating 30 minutes to work. That's it. And then I'm fully on you guys again,

rather than trying to work and motherhood at the same time.

That's just hard. 

yeah, yeah. I love that kind of batching mentality. 'cause  I think when you start a task, you have all this intention and it will only take you x amount of time. But especially social media posts these days, like they can take a lot longer than you expect. So,  you know, really batching the little tasks you need to do to get there so that you don't get stuck editing for two hours and, and going, no, I'm, I'm ignoring you 'cause I'm going, getting this done.

And being able to be like, you know what? I'm saving that draft down  and we'll go back to that later,

you know? And then when I get my next break, I do my next thing.

um, I think for me with, um, you know, the co like the  not competition, the challenge. that you just did 

Yeah. 

is having the idea already in your head. And it's then

so easy to implement because you just have the idea. You take that one piece of content, you develop it, you feel excited and proud about it.

You have it sitting there and you post.

And I think the thing with you that I really love, and I think that this is so important for, you know, women in business and trying to run social media pages is,  you know, more than anything, what you showed me is it doesn't have to be much like I was doing less with what you were telling

me to do than what I was doing on my own. It's three really good posts.

And a story every day. That's it. Like, it's so

simple, but with the right ideas and how to implement them properly and

just to have that thought around it,

that's when you start to see growth. And the other thing that we spoke

about, that I've spoken about with my Salon Rising clients since that we've done the challenge, is the fact that, um,  it takes, it took three weeks for my mind to start growing.

So it was three weeks 

Patience.

told me to do. It is

patience. Like, you know, I remember the first, 

People, people expect results straight away, 

straight away and It's consistency and it's just doing it over and over again. And just understanding and trusting the process. And because you were 

that Simon, you, you shared that Simon, um, reel, didn't you? Where Simon Sinek, someone did. Yeah, and it's the same thing. If you go to the gyms, you know, three times in one week, you don't expect to have abs then it's not till  you've done the same thing consistently for six months that you start to see some abs.

Exactly the same, isn't it? 

it?

was, it blew my mind. 'cause the first couple of, like, even when I did the first couple of posts, I was excited 'cause I was like, oh, they did great. Like, cool, let's keep going. Like they did

Mm-hmm.

And then it finally, it didn't really do much. And then all of a sudden it was like boom, boom, boom. And

then now I'm hardly having to post.

And the following's just growing and growing and

It's got that momentum. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's exciting. And yeah, just the mindset shift of like knee jerk posting and instant validation, like that's all shifted for you because I feel like you, you, you understand intention now and purpose, so it's giving you this rhythm that's actually  doing what it's meant to do.

It's strategic. Um, and that's, I think, yeah, that's, well, they, that's my real goal, I think, out of  how I work with clients is to get, get them just clicking, clicking over to thinking strategically because we,  with our busy lifestyles, being visual people, it's very easy to just, to be kind of, you know, top line and a bit here, there everywhere.

So it is when you unlock that. That's where you make the difference. And it's so, it's just the most rewarding thing when I see a client unlock that, it's like, yes, you're getting it.

Yes.

And I have worked with you for a really long time, and I still feel like this was a big game changer for me. Like, I'm like,

Yeah. Yeah. It 

it. I understand 

yeah. Yeah. And that's why I think it's interesting that a challenge mentality seems to  bring that full circle accountability that you need to really get it to work, you know?

And it's, it's like all education, because  I think that, you know, Instagram is becoming such a busy place with education.

And I love this quote too. Someone just said, education without action is just entertainment.  And I think that's so true. Like we save all these videos and with all this, all this intention, but we don't action any of it. So it's just entertainment, just watching it.  Yeah. So.

so much that I never watch again, that I'm like, that's really

handy. Never watch it again. 

It's really great. Never watch it again.

no. And it's not easy to get to access.

That's why I think having that DM prompt of your post and using that as your source of truth of what my plan is, instead of going to your saves or scrolling, they're distracting places.

They're not places where you can focus and have a confident plan, but like

a direction from a coach  in that space seems to have a lot more like, okay, I'm actually gonna do this.

I'm not gonna fuss around and get, um, and ah, I'm actually gonna do, you know, 

Just do it. 

task you give me. Yeah, yeah.

No, I was very proud of you. You were,

It's very much the do the one task. Just do this one thing. Okay. I can do

one thing.  

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you did so well. Well done. 

so how are you feeling about everything now? How is Ms. Piper excited about being a big sister and

starting to grasp the concept yet?

she is. And even just today at childcare drop off the teachers pulled me aside, was like, oh, pipe's studying. She's been telling quite a few teachers that she's getting a little sister. I'm like, oh my good goodness. Like it's, it's really coming to that  exciting chapter. And yeah, she's definitely aware.

She's at that age where

yeah. 

she, she's semi aware, she kisses my belly. Like it's quite beautiful. I think she's, she's, I still have to put her to like, sleep with her most nights, so I don't know how

that's all gonna work out,  but, you know, I, I surrendered to that three years ago, you know, 

yeah.  

that's not something I even complain about.

'cause that's just, that's just my life, you know? I go into bed with her most nights. That's just what it is. Um, yeah, it's gonna be, I'm just laughing at how I'm gonna navigate that with another newborn, but I'll do it. I'll get through and I'll show up the next day for work. 'cause you know, that's what we do.

And I know that's what so many other mothers with small business owners are doing. And it, it absolutely inspires me to, to 

But I think the vulnerability even in that, like, you know, that other business owners do it because they can show up and be vulnerable, do the same thing. Just be

like, well, today was a comedy of errors as I have one child and this child and no lunches are done and

you know, this one vomited all over me and this, and I'm trying to like get a post feed out.

Like I just love, I live for that stuff. I love when other

yeah. 

this is messy.  Like

this life is messy. It's beautiful, but it's messy. 

Absolutely. Yeah. And it's, you know, no one wants, no one wants curation on Instagram anymore. Like, no one wants on TikTok. There's no curation on TikTok at all. You 

Zero 

it's, we're 13 years in. We are cynical. We are, we are.  We just, we, we just want people to be real. You know, there's so much ai, there's so much fakeness that we, the only, the thing that cuts through is just being, being honest and real.

So,

Yeah.

And with that, I think you have to be okay that you are gonna have  the people that hate it and the people that love it,

Yeah,

that are just, you know, enjoy it. So 

how do you navigate? Do you ever have that struggle with social media of any negativity or generally you finding It's quite positive? 

no, I,  I definitely, I think as my audience has grown, there's definitely, I feel like a sense of more responsibility to give really good, good advice. Like,

Mm-hmm. 

the only, the only downfall I guess, of grown an audience is that, yeah, there's quite an expectation. Um, sometimes I feel so,  like, you know, something I would've maybe shared quite simply.

Before I had a 55,000 followers. I might second guess. 'cause I'm like, Ooh, does that apply for this market? Or 

Mm. 

that, you know, it's, it's a bigger community. Um,  so yeah, I, that's, that's probably one thing I think has  changed. I kind of missed the liberation. I had a little bit more with a smaller audience,

um,  yeah.

Around that kind of expectation. Um, but, uh, look, if something goes viral, like, you know, your hundreds of thousands views your millions, absolutely. But I just, and they're not your they customer, like the people that are trolling you. Uh,  others, like, for me, the trolls for me would be another social, a social media manager or someone like that.

And I'm like, you're not 

Mm 

I don't care. 

So it's, it doesn't,  yeah. You have to be, yeah. It hasn't been too bad. It's just sometimes that pressure of, of, um, people wanting a lot from, from me can feel a little bit.  Overwhelming 

Yes. Yeah.

Especially 

wanting more free tips. You know, I already give a lot of free education and sometimes when I 

much free 

of like, Hey, can you tell me how to do this?

I'm like,  I'm running a business, guys, you know, come on.  These are my options. I,  I think of, I think you might have enough of free tips if you, and the free tip isn't gonna be the thing if I tell, you know, if you slide into my dms asking what time should I post? That is not going to be the thing that makes the change, doing the 30 day challenge, doing the courses that's gonna make the change.

So, and then I've just gotta, I guess,  be thicker skinned about  taking that personally and just come up with a really good way of getting that across to them. So, you know, I love that 

And I think, 

getting.

I think, well, that's what I think. I think you said it just there like, Hey, you know, like.  At the end of the day, that's not what's going to make the massive difference. So if you wanna make a massive difference, jump on Join a, join a

challenge, join a A group. Listen. And for me, like there's obviously so many different, you do so much incredible education, whether you can do one-on-ones, whether you can be in one of your courses, 

whether you with challenges, and we all learn in such different ways. And for me, I have been blessed enough to have  the courses with you, but I'm terrible. And don't read and don't consume. I'm exactly as you

just said. And education is just entertainment. If you're not actually consuming. And the greatest way you could have done it for me is in a challenge where it is

in front of me every single day.

All I have to do is look at what you're telling me to do. Sometimes I didn't

even read it because I know what I need to do because I've worked with you for so long 

that I would just look at the prompt and then I would literally, 'cause it's visual and we are visual creatures, or just

look at the prompt and then just create that day and done. 

Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. 

So I think that, and I,  I think everybody is, yeah, you give incredible, like our industry is so lucky to have you because

how you.

deliver. Um, and it can be so simple. And I always talk about the first time that you showed me how to use InShot and you showed me, I think every, I use InShot every day and every time I use the split button 

I go, fuck, I love Ash because you told me that.

And it's something so simple. But I remember saying

to you, I don't get it. Can you do it again? I don't get it.

Can you do it again? I don't understand this. Can you do it again? And you just was like, yeah, yeah,

Yeah.

And I think you give so much information away that I've learned so much through your social media just by. You sharing a tip? There's, there's so much on my phone that saved that you have said to do

because it's all of those little things that, you know, people go, I can never do it, or it doesn't work, or I can't feel myself, or I can't do this, or I can't do that. And I'm like, you absolutely can do all of it.

It's just one little tip at a time. 

And you know, immerse yourself in some education with somebody that feels

aligned for you, like you do for me.

And you'll be blown away at what a difference you can make. 

absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's absolutely within reach. It's just doing, yeah, doing the hard work, but finding the right person to help you do that hard work with, and you know, the format that works for you. Um,

everyone should get it on it. Get on it now before you go on maternity leave. 

Quick, quick. No, there, there'll still be options. There'll, you know, yes. They won't be as, um, one-on-one, but there's, there's still be options. You know,

You have built so  

as well, as well. Yeah. I've got a few different offerings, which is great now. So

Yeah.

yeah, Instagram subscription will still be there.

That will still be something I can keep. Um, top up education with, um, I might look to ramp that up more because again, it's very low touch, scalable.

Um,  and then, yeah, 2026 I'll, you know, ramp up more that back to face-to-face. Probably travel as well. So just see how we go.  Yeah.

so good. I love how you're raised like, EH, 2026. I'll be back onto it,

Yeah. 

like

You're like, shut up. It's, it's Feb. Leave us alone.

Yeah, 

No,  it's what you do when you're pregnant, don't you? You're just, you're planning and yeah, preparing. So,

Yeah.

You're like, what's my 2026 gonna look like? 'cause I have to like stay more quiet this year. 

Yeah. 

Oh, babe. I am so excited for you. I think, as you said, a pregnancy after loss is.  Terrifying and you're so anxious. But then on the other side, it also, you just, the gratitude that you have for being pregnant,

um, is also so much more than what you, you know, life after loss is so much more precious because you just so aware of how quickly it can change. 

absolutely. Yeah. No, I, I feel very lucky, but,  you know,  very aware that everyone has their journeys and it's just, you know, we are amazing. Everyone is incredible. And  if, yeah, like you said, if this can open up a conversation, make some people feel heard and seen, and, you know, when I was going through that miscarriage, going for those walks when I had that time off and searching for a podcast, that would help, help me feel  like, you know this, you'll be okay.

I hope maybe this, this could be a podcast for someone that might be on one of those walks one day. So if that, if it can do that, I'll, I'll be very happy. 

Oh, I love that. And I think it's really important.  I think it's really special that you waited and shared,  obviously pregnant again far, like, quite far along, feeling more comfortable, but sharing it in this way and being like,

you know, it is possible, it is possible to still have life go forward. It's still possible to run those businesses.

It's still possible. But I think also just allowing yourself is exactly what you said. Allowing yourself that grace, um,  that grace period to step out of

that too. Put that boundary in place of when you feel comfortable coming back and, you know, deciding what that feels comfortable most for, for you, um, is really important because, yeah, it's, you know, going through miscarriage is  horrendous in its own right.

Going through miscarriage when you're running a business and expected to show up.  Is, you know, and not being able to, you know, take a couple of weeks off sick leave or take some holidays or, you know, because

it's so unexpected. Um, it's a different horror all in itself. 

Yeah, absolutely. Incredible. Incredible people. Everyone,  especially you. 

Oh, thank you so much for sharing your story. I think we went everywhere.

My

pleasure.

We did,

We went

like, 

still covered some 

we're just like, let's  look. That was never the intention that anyone that's listening

to a business who is

like gone 

intertwined. It's intertwined. That's the thing. It's all intertwined, so

Yeah.

it's a habit. It's a part of our habit. So it's, yeah, it, it's affected, so yeah, it's all 

I think the fact there that you are talking about how the fact that you could show back up even when you're going through it, even with not anyone knowing what was going on.  I think is absolute powerhouse. And I, I think it's important information, you know, and

also saying, I don't know how to talk about this because 

in the world of social media, I don't want to look like, and I know all of those things you're feeling, I know when you cover

it up and say like, I know other people have it much worse, 

but everybody's story is their story and everybody's

pain is their pain.

And just, you know, like it's one person's pain's not more important than a, than another's, it's just

different, you know? And what we've experienced is our life story. So

I think it's incredibly brave that you're like, I wanna talk about it and I wanna do it in a way that's just not  surprise,  you know, I'm

pregnant and I now I don't know how to talk about the fact that I

It's all happy sunshine

a horrible life. 

I have the sun coming through the light.

yeah, yeah.

As it's like, 

ah, on you.  

yeah.

because yeah, because also, you know, in the background, if it, if it was just the Happy Sunshine post, there's potentially other people that are triggered by you right

Absolutely. Yeah.

and

you wanna be like, 

trigger that I saw in, in that period. Absolutely. That's my worst fear. So  yeah. How that post looks, I don't quite know. I'm just gonna say go, go listen to this podcast.

yeah, there's an announcement. Listen to this

Yeah.

But, you know, it was an important, it was an important conversation to talk about because

if someone is. feeling triggered, here is the back behind it. And it's not all sunshine and rainbows, like everybody makes it out

to be. It's

fucking hard.  

And thank well, and thank you for  creating a safe space where I, I could talk about 

Oh, mate. I'm so honored when you said it, I was 

how will you make me feel? Yeah. It's

I was like, so when can we, I was like, rich, now when can we do it? What does it look like? I got, I said to my partner, you have to pick up the kids from school. I have to talk to my friend 

because it's such an important conversation.  

Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm so, I'm very grateful. Have it with you. 

I am so sorry you went through what you went through and had to go through loss. But I am also so excited that this rainbow baby is on her way.  Um,

and you.

are gonna do motherhood beautifully the second time because you did it wonderfully, the first. And it is allowed to be messy and disgusting and gross.

That's motherhood.  Um, and everyone is allowed to give you grace and let you have some time off. So stay the fuck out of her dms for that first month, guys. Let her have her

No one asked me when to post.

Yeah. No one. Ask her when to post. It's like six 30. You are 20 minutes late. Go like, it's like six 30 guys. If anyone is listening, it's six 30.

Do it at six 30. Stop asking Ash when to post. She is gonna be having a baby. That's more important. 

Thanks. Always got my back. Thank you.

Yeah.  All right, my friend. I love you. Please, if

anybody is like, I think this is a powerful message, right?

If anyone is going through this and needs to have a little bit of a chat to someone that's like, oh God, I went through this thing of sharing, please jump over onto either of our dms. We are

there at all times.

Because having, even though it's a community that you don't wanna be a part of, you're deeply grateful when people reach out and say, thank you for sharing this, because I went through this and it was awful and I'm so sorry you went through it as well. Or I'm going through this, or

I listened to this podcast not knowing that one day I would go through this.

Mm. Absolutely. Yeah. No, it would be an honor. If anyone wanted to reach out, I would.  Would love to connect. 

Yeah. I love that.  All right. I

love you.  

Love you. Thank you so much, Samara. Beautiful. Can't believe I didn't cry. Woo.

I know, 

jittery mess, but I'm good. 

I think when you're,

you're like, I've just gotta keep

talking, I've gotta keep talking, I've gotta, keep going through it, I've gotta keep talking, I've gotta, you know, just like,

Move forward. 

yeah.  But I think the beauty in it is that you've moved through so much, you've posted so much, and you now have the ability to,  um, have those conversations with elders.

'cause I think when you show up raw  on social media and you haven't processed anything either, that's when

it's messy.  

mm.  

Because that's when you look back and you go, I regret that like I did. Once  you look back and you think, I, I regret that because. It was in a moment that I needed, I just had to say it, and now I'm severely

overwhelmed by all of this noise.

Yeah,  I

think that's the thing with social media, right? Sometimes you just have to stay quiet until you're ready

Mm. 

and you just did that. You know, you're 19 weeks pregnant now, so you just stay quiet until you are like, okay, now I'm comfortable and confident, and I wanna talk about where the journey went. 

Yeah. Thank you. That's reassuring. I think. Yeah, everything's feeling quite right, so yeah.  Exciting times. 

Oh, we're so excited for you. 

Thank you.

All right, my friend. I love you. Thank you for this conversation 

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.  Love you 

I'll talk to you soon. Love you. Bye.

Bye.